Ahhh, the Politics of Control!

joab, I thought the problem was that the police didn't say anything to the reporter. I mean, I know the official line of "obstruction" but I'm still looking for obstruction in the account.

Now, we're all familiar with the "he was a good kid, on a good path" syndrome, but I'm seriously looking for any reason to arrest this guy.
 
Some people just need to hit the bucket

Keeps um on the straight and narrow. Doing life in prison one weekend at a time. Take um off the street and they have a better chance of surviving. They go to court and finally it might sink in.

The path of life is not always something that you can predict. We take a different approach.
To "protect and serve" can be taken many ways. The police are the mainline of defense in a society such as has developed in the gangbanging neighborhoods.

The life you save may just be the one you put in the holding tank for the weekend.

It might not be what you want to hear, but it is a fact.

25 percent of the gangbangers are dead before 25. 25 percent are in jail.
The rest are somewhere beyond the time frame and heading where I mentioned, 25 percent of gangbangers become good citizens.

The other 25 percent are victims, as in shot and scared every waking and sleepless night from the random gunfire, and wondering where their child is. The society of that lifestyle is lost, believe it.

He might have been the snitch, and they were protecting him.
It happens so don't get your panties in a wad as some say.
I am telling you like it is. He might just want to get in the limelight. He has.

Some when posting are just showing there ignorance to the conditions that are in our town and barrios. Ride along in the town of choice.

Here are your choice's:

LA CA and any other small incorporated cities touching it borders.
Any large city with gang details that have to target them on a regular bases to keep the bodybags to a minimum.

Go for it, have a nice night of reality, you need to put on your best gutsy attitude and then maybe then you will understand the war that is going on in the cities of America.

We lose more in downtown America, then in Iraq every day.

Just ask Sgt Barker ;)

HQ
 
...As long as the ones we "lose" are the gang-members themselves, Harley, think of it as evolution in action. It's not a policeman's job to save the criminals but to protect the presumed-innocent civilians.

The U.S. seems to be having some LEOs who can't distinguish one from the other; such officers save the poor, oppressed hoodlum and rough up bystanders with cameras. It's not right.
 
Roberta X

I have given you several clues as to what might have happened.

There are to many scenarios out there. To just keep harping on the roughing up angle of some budding photo seller, and abused.
You are determined to carry that on for the whole thread with only one piece of evidence.

Some of my best performance's were against the informant and trying to keep him alive and in there giving me information.

Lets try and get some more information, you keep up the one approach. You are totally convinced. It is a Shame.

HQ
 
A person should not be arrested unless the officer has cause to do so. Why would undercover police be serving a warrant? I think that the job of undercover officers would be to get the evidence needed for an arrest warrant then let the detectives and uniformed guys serve the warrant if you dont want identities to be known.

It smells a little fishy when they arrest you then release you with no charges.
 
They might have been doing a sting or undercover work and the guy was taking pictures of them.

It is one thing for a few to see the undercover guy, but to take the picture and then maybe put it up on the net is another.

The 4th Amendment isn't contingent on whether the cop is undercover or not.
 
Trial and Guilt are available to the citizen

Based on the one item you are going to go to the 4th :rolleyes:

Here is a little happening in our city about every 3 days or so. How about your city:

Sacramento Sheriff's deputies are investigating the killing of a Carmichael man who was shot outside a video store late Sunday night.
"We are thinking it is a robbery gone bad," Sgt. Tim Curran said.


Norick Abaramyan, 45, was killed in his car while his son was either returning or renting a video shortly before midnight Sunday at the Hollywood Video store on Watt Avenue north of Marconi Avenue, Curran said.
The shooting took place while the son was in the store and the father was in the car sitting behind the driver’s seat, Curran said. The victim and the suspects exchanged few if any words, he said.

Witnesses reported that two male subjects were seen walking around the corner after hearing two loud pops.

The suspects left the scene in a blue American-made sedan, Curran said.

HQ
 
Based on a couple of scenarios I gave...

That happen quite a bit, I believe it will flush out later, so I am just going to wait and see.

I actually try not to Judge, was not paid to do that. we were paid to enforce laws and arrest, let the chips fall where they may.

If you are afraid of the media and all the other monday morning quartebacking, being a LEO is not what you should do.

I am not Judging but most of you are, Think about it. Jail house lawyers and other after the fact of the incident.
Funny really.

The courts will argue for years, but you know all about it from the one article.

HQ
 
joab, I thought the problem was that the police didn't say anything to the reporter.
Police told Hairston that they did take Cruz into to custody, but they said Cruz was not on his property when they arrested him. Police also denied that they told Cruze he was breaking the law with his cell phone. Cruz's famly said it has filed a formal complaint with the police department's Internal Affairs division and are requesting a complete investigation.

Just because the reporter did not see fit to put the actual words of the police in the little quotation marks does not mean that they were silent
This way all the paranoid and state haters can say "see, typical cop denial tactic"

Maybe there is some truth to the arrested for photography angle and maybe the kid decided to wade in and take pictures up close and personal.

Just because the cops did not immediately take their case to the court of public opinion does not mean that they are guilty or hiding anything.

Maybe they are doing what some here should be doing, waiting for the facts before making statements
 
thanks joab, I needed that for my sanity xxxooo

Roberta X,

Do we have a problem? I have not mentioned you by name have I? At least not of late:D

Judge, jury and executioner, I am not.
Many scenarios I have tried to put forth. joab is reading. He is seeing. what is so hard about that?:p

HQ;)
 
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Harley: I do not see disagreement as a problem. I see no reason why you and I should be in lockstep agreement. But we've each reached our first-approximation view of the situation pending further data, with you defending the police and me defending Constitutionally-protected rights. We're not going to change one another's opinion. So we're done.
 
Photo and law rights

http://photography.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://jpgmag.com/issue5.htmlI could not find the corect way to link exactly so here is a copy

New digital camera? Know how, where you can use it
Digital cameras were one of the hot gifts these holidays — the first one for some people, an upgrade for others. Cell-phone cameras are everywhere too, and sites like Flickr and Buzznet — not to mention photoblogs — make it easy for anyone to share the zillions of photos they're taking.
With all these cameras snapping around us, I started to wonder about the laws regarding using them. Where can you shoot? What can you shoot?

A blogger I know shot a picture in an office building. One of the tenants had boxes of medical records sitting around in an unlocked office, visible from the hall. He published a picture of the boxes, which started a little brouhaha: He didn't have permission from the building's landlord, someone said, so he wasn't allowed to take or publish the photos.

That turns out not to be the case.

What I discovered is that a lot of people have ideas — often very clear ones — of what is legal and what isn't, based on anything from common sense to wishful thinking to "I always heard…"

Gadget of the week

Starting here, I'll be featuring one new, cool tech toy every week. This week, in keeping with the column topic, let me introduce you to the five megapixel Casio Exilim EX-S500 digital camera ($350).

I started getting into the habit of carrying a camera with me most of the time. (You never know what you might see.) When the Casio folks sent me this to try out for a couple of weeks, I decided I had found a perfect slip-in-your-pocket shooter.

This isn't the camera to get if you're looking to have full control and take the best pictures available with a digicam. It is the camera to get if you want to carry something around to get really nice shots quickly and easily from something that slips into a shirt pocket.

It's designed to be quick and convenient. It's got a great full-auto mode, as well as a host of presets (Portrait, Scenery, Sports, etc.). There's no optical viewfinder, just a large, bright LCD. It's quick to start up, has an almost no shutter lag, and sports an anti-shake technology, a bright flash, and even shoots 30 fps MPEG-4 movies.

Its strength is its size: Tiny and slim, about the size of a credit card and less than half an inch thick. I love my Canon Digital Rebel XT, but this is the one I grab when I'm walking downtown for lunch — just in case.

The biggest downside is the tiny built in memory; it will allow you three shots at the highest quality. Plan on spending an extra $50 or $60 for a 512-MG SD memory card; Casio should have included one with the Exilim, especially because it takes such nice movies.

Other than that, if you're feeling nosy or just want to shoot unobtrusively, check this puppy out.






Trouble is, they aren't always right. If you've got a digital camera and like to shoot in public, it pays to know the real deal.

So I went looking for it. I checked with the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press and found its Photographers' Guide to Privacy.

The Missouri Bar has a terrific Journalists' Right of Privacy Primer by attorney Mark Sableman.

Bert P. Krages, an attorney in Portland, Ore., and author of the Legal Handbook for Photographers, has a short but excellent PDF document called The Photographer's Right.

I also had e-mail conversations with both Mssrs. Sableman and Krages (who were both careful to point out that they were only speaking in general terms, and not offering legal advice).

Finally, I got some background from the American Law Institute's A Concise Restatement of Torts on the Harvard Law website.

Of course, I'm not a lawyer; in this case I'm a researcher. But lemme tell you: All these sources jibed, which I take to be a good sign. Just don't take this as legal advice; it's one columnist's researched understanding of the law.

If you can see it, you can shoot it

Let's get the easy stuff out of the way. Aside from sensitive government buildings (e.g., military bases), if you're on public property you can photograph anything you like, including private property. There are some limits — using a zoom lens to shoot someone who has a reasonable expectation of privacy isn't covered — but no one can come charging out of a business and tell you not to take photos of the building, period.

Further, they cannot demand your camera or your digital media or film. Well, they can demand it, but you are under no obligation to give it to them. In fact, only an officer of the law or court can take it from you, and then only with a court order. And if they try or threaten you? They can be charged with theft or coercion, and you may even have civil recourse. Cool. (For details, see "The Photographer's Right.")

It gets better.

You can take photos any place that's open to the public, whether or not it's private property. A mall, for example, is open to the public. So are most office buildings (at least the lobbies). You don't need permission; if you have permission to enter, you have permission to shoot.

In fact, there are very few limits to what you're allowed to photograph. Separately, there are few limits to what you're allowed to publish. And the fact that they're separate issues — shooting and publishing — is important. We'll get to that in a moment.

You can take any photo that does not intrude upon or invade the privacy of a person, if that person has a reasonable expectation of privacy. Someone walking in a mall or on the street? Fair game. Someone standing in a corner, looking at his new Prozac prescription? No. Using a long lens to shoot someone in an apartment? No.

Note that the limits have nothing to do with where you are when you take the shots; it's all about the subject's expectation of privacy. You can be on private property (a mall or office-building lobby), or even be trespassing and still legally take pictures. Whether you can be someplace and whether you can take pictures are two completely separate issues.

Chances are you can publish it

Publishing photos has some different restraints, although they're civil, not criminal. Break one of these "rules" and, while you won't go to jail, you could find yourself on the short end of a lawsuit. (Although, according to the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, "the subject's remedy usually will not include the ability to bar the publication of the picture.")

Revealing private facts about someone is a no-no. As the American Law Institute put it, "One who gives publicity to a matter concerning the private life of another is subject to liability to the other for invasion of his privacy, if the matter publicized is of a kind that A) would be highly offensive to a reasonable person, and B) is not of legitimate concern to the public."

Here the private property issue comes a bit more into play. Publishing a recognizable photo of someone at an AA meeting could be a problem, even if that meeting is open to the public. (An elected official, perhaps, but not of Joe Citizen.)

You also can find yourself in civil court if you publish a shot that places a person in a false light. That might be more of an issue with the caption than with the photo; running a shot of the mayor and his daughter labeled "Mayor meets with porn star" could land you in hot water. (Assuming his daughter isn't a porn star.)

Finally, you can't use someone's likeness for a purely commercial purpose — using a photo of someone in an ad, for example. That isn't to say you can't publish a photo in a commercial environment, such as a newspaper or a blog that accepts ads. If the photo is being used in a news or artistic sense as opposed to a commercial one you're OK.

Risk factors

The fact that taking a photo and publishing it are separate things might go against some folks' common sense.

Let's say you're banned by the local mall for taking photos there, but you go back anyway and take more. Now you're trespassing. But unless the photos you take violate someone's expectation of privacy, your taking photos isn't illegal — only being there.

That said, if you're arrested and convicted, a judge might use the fact that you were taking photos to increase the penalty, but shooting on private property isn't a crime in and of itself. As one lawyer told me, "I don't see why the act of trespass would turn something that occurs during the trespass into a tort if it wasn't one already."

There are some other risks to taking and publishing 'problematic' photos. But, as you'll see, they're easy to avoid.

Trespassing is an obvious problem. If you're not supposed to be someplace — you see a sign or you're told by the property owner, for example — you can get arrested. Sure, you might be able to publish the photos you take, but Web access from jail is limited. (Trespassing is almost always a misdemeanor, by the way.)

You might be charged with your state's variation of intrusion — using technology (e.g., a long lens, hidden camera, or parabolic microphone) — to access a place where the subject has an expectation of privacy.

Beyond trespass, the major risks you run are civil, not criminal. You can lose an invasion of privacy lawsuit if your photographs reveal private facts about a person that are offensive and not newsworthy when the person had a reasonable expectation of privacy. Ditto if they place the person in a false light, or inappropriately use the specific person's image for commercial purposes, e.g., stating that the mayor endorses a product by publishing a photo of him using it.

All of this should be good news for amateur and professional shutterbugs. Carry your camera, shoot to your heart's content, and know your rights — and your risks.
 
Several years back, a helicopter flew low over my house. Very low. I was irritated by the low pass, grabbed my video camera, and ran outside and started taping.

It turned out to be a Sheriff's dept. copter, and they turned out to be irritated that I was taping them. The copter orbited my property for a couple of hours, then about 6 cop cars suddenly appeared in my driveway. They claimed that they thought that some baby lychee and peach trees that I had behind in the back yard were marijuana plants, but I never believed the claim. Baby lychees and peaches don't look anything like marijuana plants, especially in October, when this happened. There were 4 cops in the chopper, and they couldn't have been more than 100 feet up when they caused my initial reaction. If 4 sets of eyes at that distance can't tell the difference between a baby lychee or peach tree and a budding cannabis plant in October, why are they bothering to look at all (at $1,000+ per hour for the Jet Ranger, plus pay for the 4 occupants)?

Fact is, they CAN spot weed from up there, they had to know I had none, and they just wanted to F*** with me because I had the nerve to video them. I was disturbed that all my new neighbors were getting their first impression of me with a cop chopper hovering overhead for hours, I was disturbed at the apparent incompetence of the agents in the sky, I was disturbed because the level of incompetence was so completely unbelievable that I knew something else was going on, I was disturbed by the staggering amount of money they must have spent harassing me that day, and I wrote a three page letter to the Sheriff explaining all these things. Never heard back.
 
Video capper

Here is one where they violated some rights.

Victims that is.


SACRAMENTO - Five suspects were arrested Tuesday in connection with Sunday night's murder at an Arden Arcade video store - including the victim's 19-year-old son, authorities said.
The suspects are: Vardan Abramyan, 19, of Sacramento; Isaiah Dupree Barron, 19, of Elk Grove; Arthur James Battle III, 18, of Sacramento; Jason McKinley Dillingham, 18, of Sacramento; and a 16-year-old male from Sacramento, said Sgt. Tim Curran of the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department.


Norik Abramyan, 46, of Fresno was fatally shot outside Hollywood Video at Watt and Whitney avenues just before midnight Sunday as he waited in a white Kia as his son returned or rented a video inside the store.
Curran said authorities are not sure of the extent of the younger Abramyan's alleged involvement in his father's murder, but are investigating whether he set up his father.

Two of the suspects were believed to have fired the shots, while two waited in a vehicle, and the younger Abramyan was inside the store, he said.

Curran said authorities were able to identify the suspects after a police officer in Rancho Cordova - a city that contracts with the Sheriff's Department - heard a description of them broadcast over the radio Sunday night. One description perfectly matched that of a man sought in an earlier burglary/stolen vehicle incident.

That officer contacted his supervisor, who contacted the Sheriff's Department.

"It was outstanding police work," Curran said.


Extra:
Update on deaths for the last 24 hours in the small area of a huge land of crime and rights.

Neighborhood feud turns fatal for man
By Crystal Carreon

Published 12:01 am PDT Wednesday, August 2, 2006

Murder-suicide, two other attacks leave four dead
By Kim Minugh

Published 12:01 am PDT Wednesday, August 2, 2006


Published 12:01 am PDT Wednesday, August 2, 2006

Victim's son, four others held in video store killing
By Kim Minugh

Published 12:01 am PDT Wednesday, August 2, 2006

Athletes on trial for 2003 killing
By Mareva Brown


Published 12:01 am PDT Sunday, July 30, 2006

Toddler killed by errant SUV
By Crystal Carreon

Published 12:01 am PDT Friday, July 28, 2006

Tour's drug cloud shines light on pressure to cheat
By Melody Gutierrez

Published 12:01 am PDT Friday, July 28, 2006

Molester lands at hotel
By Sam Stanton

Keep happy knowing that the criminals are out there doing their thing.
Hope none these fine cappers, rights were violated.

Every major city is just like this in 24 hours or 2,3 times as bad. Welcome to freedom. No wonder so many want to carry and have their guns, can you blame them?

HQ
 
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Yes. Harley; the evil that some men do is one of the very best reasons for the private ownership and carriage of arms. (I will point out to you that Indianapolis, where I live, has a much lower incidence of violence than your neck of the woods -- yet unlike most inhabitants of California, law-abiding Hoosiers can and do carry personal arms. Looks like a correlation if you ask me). Part of freedom is indeed exposure to risk. It was true in 18th Century and it's true now. It has always been true.

And yes, those suspects do indeed have rights.

And it still doesn't have anything at all to do with a fellow being arrested for taking photos of uniformed police activity along a public road.

You keep wanting to read more into the news story than was there, to spin fantasies about this or that supposedly extenuating circumstance. Why not just go with what made it into print until more information is available? Man got a trip downtown in irons for shootin' photos of the policemen policing, period. Reporters are more likely to be lazy than evil. Most of them aren't even ambitious enough to make things up.


Justice is a human construct. It's got flaws. We might not be terribly happy about that but justice is an imperfect art; it can either err on the side of missing some of the guilty or punishing the innocent and from the beginning, American justice has held it better that a guilty man occasionally escape than an innocent man be harmed. Perfection is for the gods; we -- yes, even you and I and even the robed greyhairs of the Supreme Court -- are but mortals.

It's fun to talk about arrestin' all the bad 'uns and the Thin Blue Line but neither the root of the problem nor the solution are to be found at that interface; just as personal arms are the last resort of a peacable citizen, the police are the last resort of civil society.
 
people read into based on knowledge and experience

Yes, the incident is what we need to talk about. It has been hashed long enough until some more information is available.

Why not lets all go forth and try and find out what, why, when and will this man be set free, or persecuted longer.

HQ
 
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