Ahhh, the Politics of Control!

A

Al Norris

Moderator Emeritus
When you peruse various and sundry news sources, as I often do, once in a while you come across something that is truly bizarre!

We are often told today, when new criminal laws are enacted, or 4th and 5th amendment incursions are upheld by the Courts, "If you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have to worry about this!"
Cell Phone Picture Called Obstruction Of Justice
Man Arrested For Shooting Photo Of Police Activity

POSTED: 6:41 pm EDT July 25, 2006
UPDATED: 5:11 pm EDT July 26, 2006

PHILADELPHIA -- A Philadelphia family said they are outraged over the arrest of one of their family members.

The family of Neftaly Cruz said police had no right to come onto their property and arrest their 21-year-old son simply because he was using his cell phone's camera. They told their story to Harry Hairston and the NBC 10 Investigators.

"I was humiliated. I was embarrassed, you know," Cruz said.

Cruz, 21, told the NBC 10 Investigators that police arrested him last Wednesday for taking a picture of police activity with his cell phone.

Police at the 35th district said they were in Cruz's neighborhood that night arresting a drug dealer.

Cruz said that when he heard a commotion, he walked out of his back door with his cell phone to see what was happening. He said that when he saw the street lined with police cars, he decided to take a picture of the scene.

"I opened (the phone) and took a shot," Cruz said.

Moments later, Cruz said he got the shock of his life when an officer came to his back yard gate.

"He opened the gate and took me by my right hand," Cruz said.

Cruz said the officer threw him onto a police car, cuffed him and took him to jail.

A neighbor said she witnessed the incident and could not believe what she saw.

"He opened up the gate and Neffy was coming down and he went up to Neffy, pulled him down, had Neffy on the car and was telling him, 'You should have just went in the house and minded your own business instead of trying to take pictures off your picture phone,'" said Gerrell Martin.

Cruz said police told him that he broke a new law that prohibits people from taking pictures of police with cell phones.

"They threatened to charge me with conspiracy, impeding an investigation, obstruction of a investigation. … They said, 'You were impeding this investigation.' (I asked,) "By doing what?' (The officer said,) 'By taking a picture of the police officers with a camera phone,'" Cruz said.

Cruz's parents, who got him out of jail, said police told them the same thing.

"He said he was taking pictures with his cell phone and that was obstructing an investigation," said Aracelis Cruz, Neftaly Cruz's mother.

The NBC 10 Investigators asked the ACLU union how they viewed the incident.

"There is no law that prevents people from taking pictures of what anybody can see on the street," said Larry Frankel of the American Civil Liberties Union. "I think it's rather scary that in this country you could actually be taken down to police headquarters for taking a picture on your cell phone of activities that are clearly visible on the street."

Frankel said Cruz's civil rights might have been violated.

"He was unlawfully seized, which is a violation of the 4th amendment the last time we checked," Frankel said.

Cruz, a Penn State University senior, said that after about an hour police told him he was lucky because there was no supervisor on duty, so they released him.

"They said if the supervisor was there I wouldn't be a free man and that he is letting me go because he felt that I was a good person," Cruz said.

Police told Hairston that they did take Cruz into to custody, but they said Cruz was not on his property when they arrested him. Police also denied that they told Cruze he was breaking the law with his cell phone. Cruz's famly said it has filed a formal complaint with the police department's Internal Affairs division and are requesting a complete investigation.
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All I have to say, to the Philidelphia Police is, "If you weren't doing anything wrong, why were you worried about a citizen taking pictures?"
 
All I have to say, to the Philidelphia Police is, "If you weren't doing anything wrong, why were you worried about a citizen taking pictures?"
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Good for the goose......

What an absolutely assinine law. Does that law really exist or was it just some cop being a jerk?
 
All a person taking a photograph is really doing is being the recipient of photons that bounce off the people he is photographing. There is no obstructing about it.

When the police install cameras to keep a 24-hour automated watch on us lowly citizens and we object, they say, "We're not photographing anything that it wouldn't be perfectly okay to have a real live cop watching."

So, how is it different in the story cited? I don't think it is.

Police told Hairston that they did take Cruz into to custody, but they said Cruz was not on his property when they arrested him. Police also denied that they told Cruze he was breaking the law with his cell phone. Cruz's famly said it has filed a formal complaint with the police department's Internal Affairs division and are requesting a complete investigation.
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Um, they denied telling him he was breaking the law with his cell phone... sooo... WHAT was it they arrested him for? Was there something ELSE he allegedly had done wrong?


-azurefly
 
???

I suppose the police are technically correct when they said he was not on his property when they arrested him. After they bounced him off a patrol car, he was on the street, no longer in his yard, so technically they aren't lying, if this is when they told him he was under arrest.

Isn't this the same department who burned down a fair part of their city, trying to get some militant folks out of their barricaded house? Of course, that was quite a few years ago.

It used to be you could photograph anything "in public view" without any legal repercussions. However, since the anti-terrorism laws, there are now legal restrictions on photographing some public things. Not sure how this will all work out, but it likely won't be to our benefit.
 
No idea.

Besides, I thought their argument now was that his arrest had nothing to do with using his cellular phone camera. :rolleyes:

And then whatever WAS the reason for his arrest, it was apparently not serious enough to warrant keeping him and charging him... :rolleyes:


-azurefly
 
SUE them into the Ground,for all the good it will do.Thats what happens when the police and courts are in the back pocket of the federal fascist police state.
 
How much longer do you think "We the People" will let this go on?
I say that it will continue to escalate. They{ LEOs} know that they can get away with almost anything, and the worst they are going to get is a " don't do that again,wink, wink,nod,nod.
When the best defense to this Constitutional encroachment is" sue them blind" after the fact, we know we have lost.
Unless it is a supremely high {nationwide press} profile case, your attempt to sue will probably fail, or get a member of your family arrested for possession of a controlled substance. If you dont think a department would do this, well, you probably did not think taking cell phone photos of the Gestapo would get you arrested either.
 
Now they arrest you for taking pictures of cops. Back in the old days they would have kicked your teeth in. Not sure which is worse.
 
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

I keep hearing that most cops are good, it’s just a few bad apples.
Where are they? Form the arresting officer right up to the chief of police not one of the good cops that I keep hearing about did anything. Not even an apology to acknowledge the mistake and violation of civil liberties.
This is where the “us VS them” ends and seems to be proven.
Where it begins for me; making eye contact and/or coming across a cop. I give a friendly wave or nod. What I get in response is, either they ignore me or continue to stare with apparent malice. This kind of treatment isn’t new or unexpected. Why do you ask? This is the way they have acted toward me since I was in high school. Nothing odd about me. I wore jeans that fit, a tee shirt and a backpack full of books. Only difference was that I had long hair tied in a ponytail and I was brown.
It’s apparent to me that they start their tactics of intimidation early so that later in life they have you trained to obey every command that they bark out of fear of being arrested.
The story posted is an extreme example of this tactic.
It’s kind of hard not to have an us Vs them mentality when you get treated like a second class citizen.
 
Antipitas said:
When you peruse various and sundry news sources, as I often do, once in a while you come across something that is truly bizarre!

We are often told today, when new criminal laws are enacted, or 4th and 5th amendment incursions are upheld by the Courts, "If you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have to worry about this!"
Click to expand...

Yes, it's very sad seeing the constant erosion of our constitutional rights. It strikes home particularly so when citizens are betrayed, lied to, or acted hypocritically against by those supposed to protect them. This has been done for decades against our 2nd A, and when it starts leaking over into the 4th and 5th like this, I hope at least a greater citizen awareness arises from it.
 
Uhmm,... I personally do not believe everything that gets published. Remember how accurate the media is/was about "Assault Weapons" and the dangers of letting citizens walk in public carrying guns!:eek:

Could this guy have been harrased by the police for taking pictures? Absolutely!

Could he have been doing something else at the time, yelling insults to LEO or advising others to run ? Maybe.

Lots of possibilities only one source so far.

Far too little information yet to make a valid judgement IMHO.

IF the cops grabbed him for taking a picture of them then yes an extremely large amount of fecal material should be hitting the fan. But lets wait and see what develops (pun intended ;) )

NukemJim
PS Since I used to be professional photographer and still do lots of photography for pleasure ( I always have a camera with me :) ) this is a subject that is near and dear to my heart.
 
Maybe they had some undercover police

They might have been doing a sting or undercover work and the guy was taking pictures of them.

It is one thing for a few to see the undercover guy, but to take the picture and then maybe put it up on the net is another.

Hopefully we get some more information.

HQ
 
Oh, come on, Harley: if your hypothetical Undercover Secret Agent Man is so ultrasecret, what's he doin' attracting attention in a residential neighborhood, whre Mr. and Mrs. America -- and their 2.7 kids -- have phone cameras, digital and film cameras and nice video recorders?

If it's come to open arrests, Offficer Undercover is made. A photo from J. Average Homeowner who doesn't even know the man's name won't expose him any more.

Nope, here's the skinny: only evil loves darkness and fears the light. If the police are up to actions that won't bear the light of day even after they've come to a head, they're up to mischief and malfeasance.

Maybe you should read up on David Codrea's "We're The Only Ones" news items?
 
The article was "passing strange" when I first read it. It still is.

Can't quite imagine what the guy could have been doing, on his own property, that would warrent the arrest. Even taking pictures of undercover guys, who are out in the public is legal (they are in public, SCOTUS has ruled they have no privacy while in public view). Shouting snarky epitaphs from his porch is legal.

The guy claims the police came onto his property and arrested him. So says a neighbor who witnessed the episode.

Guy claims he was told they arrested him for taking pictures of the police and that was "obstruction." Parents claim they were told the same thing.

Reporter asks and is not told the reason for the arrest... Not something the reporter would have left out, seeing as how the reporter went to the length to tell both sides of the story.

Add to all of this, that this is Philly and the Mayor is a "person of interest" in an ongoing corruption investigation, according to the FBI (local sweep of Mayors office finds hidden FBI recording devices).

While I know that we need more info, I'm inclined at this point, to believe the story at face value.
 
Yea, Mannlicher

They double tried those poor guys, they still failed to show the important part of the tape. He wasn't even hardly hurt :rolleyes:

Talk about a railroad job :p

Now let the Drum Roll begin:D

HQ

PS: I like the web page I'll stick'r it. I think I should change my name to "Vlad the Impaler".
 
What I find most interesting is that there is only one source for this story on all of the Internet, just one.

The police say one thing and the person arrested says something else so by all means we must believe that the police are lying. If we didn't then we would be a willing participant in the "police state"
 
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