adjustable sights

[zincwarrior]

Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.brownells.com/handgun-pa...adj-rear-sight-sku100016367-73512-155632.aspx

if you are competent do yourself, else just pay a local smith $25 or so. Its no big deal.

Most of my pistols have adjustable sights.

 

[dgludwig]

QUOTE: I don't want adjustable sights on any defensive handgun, especially one I carry. There's always the chance that they can be knocked out of whack, whereas fixed sights are much more durable.

Though I suppose there are situations when an adjustable sight is more apt to get "knocked out of whack" than a fixed sight would, in real life such an event is unlikely to have any impact on surviving a self defense encounter. Before my agency switched to autos from revolvers, I carried a Smith K-frame revolver equipped with the fine Smith & Wesson adjustable sight for many years. Over the years I was involved in more than a couple of rolling on the ground struggles with miscreants when my gun took a lot of scuffs and physical abuse and the rear adjustable sight survived intact.

However, one incident which involved a parolee resisting arrest did result in part of the rear sight blade of my revolver getting sheared off while he was being taken into custody. But, had I had to use the gun the only sight picture required would have been the front sight. My point being that most self defense scenarios occur at such close ranges that the proper sight alignment we employ for target shooting has no relevancy whatsoever in winning the day.

 

[Bob Wright]

Adjustable sights aren't needed?

Here on the left is the first group fired from my new Ruger Blackhawk Flat Top, while the target on the right shows after sight adjustment:



This was at fifteen yards, the margin would be greater if at fifty or one hundred yards.

Bob Wright

 

[Skans]

Having adjustable sights on a recoiling slide can give more issues than having loose tools on a motorcycle. The vibration of motorcycle will evenually turn the tools into almost a powder.

Stop riding Harleys and this won't happen; oh, and you won't need to carry tools either!!! Get a Vmax or Rocket III for a smoother, faster, trouble free ride. Pin a British flag onto your leather jacket over the Harley patch, and this will help you win friends and influence people among your Harley friends too.

Oh, and for those of you who think bumps and bangs will damage an adjustable sight; think OLD SCHOOL - Buy a S&W 659 (or the like) with the dog-ear steel sight protector - it doesn't get any more rock solid than a 659!

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Here on the left is the first group fired from my new Ruger Blackhawk Flat Top, while the target on the right shows after sight adjustment:

We may just have a terminology problem.

In the photo, it looks as though you shifted the rear sight to the right to shift the point of impact to the right. Many revolvers have FIXED (no dovetails allowing movement) rear sights; THE SIGHTS are sometimes part of the frame. It looks as though yours are adjustable.,

Darn few semi-autos -- this IS The Semi-Automatic Forum -- have fixed rear sights. The only semi-autos I've owned that had rear sights that couldn't be shifted within a dovetail were some of the very small polymer guns like the LCP or the Kel-tec P3AT and guns of a similar ilk -- which aren't really intended for distant shots.

Most sights on semi-autos are dovetailed front and rear and give the shooter considerable flexibility: the front or the rear can be moved, or easily replaced. But those sights in dovetails aren't called "adjustable" sights (although they are, in the broadest sense, somewhat adjustable) -- because they can be adjusted for elevation. They can be replaced.

I would bet that most of the folks responding here that said adjustables aren't needed were saying/making that distinction when saying adjsutables aren't needed.

 

[Bob Wright]

I beg your pardon for posting on the Auto Pistol forum. But every pistol I've ever owned had adjustable sights. The Colt Gold Cup was fitted with Eliason sights, probably one of the best. And my ruger also had asjustable sights.

Bit revolver or auto, different bullet weights will print differently. Even the .45 ACP makes a pretty good varmint pistol loaded with the 185 gr. JHP at some respectable velocities. And the 230 FP can give a good account of itself in the field as well.

And for those guns lacking good sights, the S&W rear sight installation is not above the skill of most gunsmiths.

Being able to put the bullet precisely where you want it is the goal of every shootist.

Bob Wright

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I beg your pardon for posting on the Auto Pistol forum. But every pistol I've ever owned had adjustable sights. The Colt Gold Cup was fitted with Eliason sights, probably one of the best. And my ruger also had asjustable sights.

All the pistols YOU'VE EVER OWNED are arguably NOT typical nor a representative sample of the guns that most shooters own or use.

If you visit the big-name gun makers' websites, you'll see that adjustable sights are not standard or all that common. Check the SIG, Glock, CZ, Colt, FN, Springfield, Walther, or H&K web sites and you'll see that FIXED SIGHTS (that are shiftable for windage) are the standard for most models, followed by similarly shiftable NIGHT SIGHTS. (Most most folks don't consider a sight that can be shifted in the dovetail an ADJUSTABLE sight as some MIGHT be using the term, in this discussion.) Adjustable sights are available, but typically only on a smaller number of models.

B[e]it revolver or auto, different bullet weights will print differently...

Different bullet weights can affect point of impact, but once the rear and front sights are properly aligned with the barrel/slide, ONLY elevation needs to be changed. (Some folks deal with that issue by switching from a "center of target" hold to a "6 o'clock" hold -- or vice versa.)

Unless there is a reason to frequently change bullet weights or loads -- and perhaps you do have such a reason -- the vast majority of civilian, military or LEO shooters don't have such a reason. Most handgun are typically designed around a specified bullet weight range, and if you stick within that range, you'll seldom have problems.

With most of my guns, a slight change in bullet weight doesn't change the point of impact all that much, unless I'm shooting beyond 25 Yards -- and if I really need to hit things with a firearm at that distance a lot, I should probably be using a rifle or a handgun set up with a longer barrel and proper magnified optics.

If you decide to go with a different weight bullet, you can get a replacement (front or rear) sight from the gun maker that will make things right -- often free, or for a very small fee...

 

[Bultaco]

I honestly don't care what the vast majority of production pistols come with. I want to be able to shoot the load that I want without using a hammer & punch to move the rear sight or worry about "hold over or under" to get the bullet to land where I want it to. I want to take out a screwdriver & go "click, click ahhh".
Almost all the pistols that I have either have adj. rear sights or will be getting them. I like to be able to shoot at 60-80 yds. and not have to figure out how far I need to hold off on the second or third shot to get a hit.
My situation is a sample of one but the only pistol I have ever knocked the sights out of alignment on was a "windage adj." 3rd. gen. S&W. That pistol has been frustrating anyway due to the fact that that it shoots well under the front sight for elev. and different height front sights are not avail. for it.
If I get in a wrestling match that knocks my rear adj. sight out of alignment so be it. I will fix it & move on. The potential for me to miss a shot during a wrestling match or what ever scenario you want to make up is about the same as getting hit with lightning. I can live with that more than I can limited adjustment or limited load selection.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Almost all the pistols that I have either have adj. rear sights or will be getting them. I like to be able to shoot at 60-80 yds. and not have to figure out how far I need to hold off on the second or third shot to get a hit.

You have a need. I suspect, however, that the vast majority of shooters here do NOT shoot their handguns at targets that are 60-80 yards distant. I know that some folks do like to shoot at such distances, but that is probably the maximum range that most handgun hunters would attempt (because they want to KILL the target, not just wound it) and most of the guys shooting at those distances use scopes.

More power to you.

My situation is a sample of one but the only pistol I have ever knocked the sights out of alignment on was a "windage adj." 3rd. gen. S&W. That pistol has been frustrating anyway due to the fact that that it shoots well under the front sight for elev. and different height front sights are not avail. for it.

Any sight that isn't properly tight in the dovetail can be knocked askew... Some of my windage-shiftable rear sights are held down by set screws, just like one or two of my adjustable sights. (But the adjustable sights on some other guns I've owned are as easily moved as the shiftable fixed sights...)

...That pistol has been frustrating anyway due to the fact that that it shoots well under the front sight for elev. and different height front sights are not avail. for it.

I've had several 3rd Gen S&Ws, (40xxs and 45xxs) and different height front sights WERE available for most (if not all) of those models. Many 3rd generation S&W models were available with adjustable or fixed sights.

In my case, I once had to get a sight for a different model of the same basic gun: when I needed a substantially higher front sight for one of my 4506s, the S&W customer service rep suggested a sight from another .45 (4563TSW?) for my 4506; that did the trick. Numrich has a number of different front sights for various 3rd Gen S&Ws, too. Maybe you were just unlucky in being unable to find what you needed at the time. S&W was running short of sights for these older guns, and Numrich is always a crap shoot!

 

[Bob Wright]

Again, my apologies for having posted here.

Bob Wright

 

[44 AMP]

Unless there is a reason to frequently change bullet weights or loads -- and perhaps you do have such a reason -- the vast majority of civilian, military or LEO shooters don't have such a reason. Most handgun are typically designed around a specified bullet weight range, and if you stick within that range, you'll seldom have problems.

The vast majority of military or LEO shooters don't have a choice.
The vast majority of many makers semi autos are "aimed" at this market.

Absolutely, by the numbers, duty / service /defensive autoloaders are the majority. And I am in no way saying fixed sights are bad. Just that, for me, they aren't the best (most useful) thing I can get.

I'm also one of the folks who doesn't consider drift adjustable for windage sights as "adjustable sights". They can be moved, or replaced to compensate but they are pretty much "fixed" once you do that.

They cannot be moved easily, (with a screwdriver), movement is NOT precise or precisely repeatable, and returning them to their original setting is not a matter of "going back 3 clicks left and 2 down".

Sights can only be fully "on" for one bullet weight, at one speed, at one range. And if that's all you do with your gun, you are well served with fixed sights.

I do other things. And while I'm not in the numerical majority of handgun shooters, I think that the fact that there are adjustable sight versions of all major pistols, or adjustable sights available as replacements for most "fixed" (drift only) sights shows that the minority is still a sizable segment of the market, who has a need, or a use for an easily adjustable and repeatable sight setup.

 

[dyl]

Sometimes you do need them out of practicality - unless you want to spend loads of time experimenting.

I have a particular pistol that likes lead bullets only (so far). And given my powder constraints during The Great Component drought I was limited to a slower burning powder. It shot fairly well, but consistently low with this powder. I have 8 pounds of this powder. I found some adjustable sights and problem solved, I now have a use for this powder (for at least one gun... my others hate this powder)

I have an M&P40c and with lower charge weights it would actually shoot lower and to the left the less powder was in it. Interesting. One could adjust or find the right load. In principle the right load would be where to go but sometimes it isnt that easy.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I think that the fact that there are adjustable sight versions of all major pistols, or adjustable sights available as replacements for most "fixed" (drift only) sights shows that the minority is still a sizable segment of the market, who has a need, or a use for an easily adjustable and repeatable sight setup.

No disagreement with THAT statement. Indeed, if you have a need, as you and some others have stated, it makes sense to have that flexibility.

My point was simply that for many (perhaps MOST) shooters with guns with adjustables mounted, once set, they are seldom (if ever) changed. For many shooters, adjustable sights are a way to "personalize" their gun -- just as they personalize their cars -- not a way of improving performance. A surprising number of folks new to handguns go that route at first...

For others adjustable sights do make sense, and improve functionality -- and are frequently adjusted.

 

[zincwarrior]

Again, my apologies for having posted here.

Bob Wright

Don't apologize. You are presenting a valuable, valid argument.

Before Glock Mania police often carried .357s. Many if not most had adjustable sights.

My Model 29 44 mag has adjustable sights. If modern sights can handle the recoil of a .44mag, then there is no issue.
Both my M&Ps and my Beretta have adjustable sights. they all work fine and stayed on sight after thousands of rounds.

If the OP wants an adjustable sight get one and be happy. There are a plethora of good adjustable sights. Further several makers now make "tactical" adjustable sights, specifically designed for heavy real world use on semi autos.

My point was simply that for many (perhaps MOST) shooters with guns with adjustables mounted, once set, they are seldom (if ever) changed.

There's nothing wrong with that. If I can use an adjustable sight and get an absolute zero at the range I want then thats a good thing. I don't see your hostility to the idea.

 

[dgludwig]

Frankly, other than increased cost and their unsuitability for use in "deep cover" locations (as I noted earlier in this thread), I fail to see the downside to having adjustable sights on any handgun and there are plenty of "upsides". I have way too many handguns to remember which pistol requires "Kentucky windage" to get the poi to conform to the poa or which pistol requires a six o'clock hold to manage the same.

I currently have two handguns in my inventory that have fixed sights that do not place bullets at the point of aim: a Ruger Vaquero revolver that will require either turning the barrel or bending the front sight to correct a windage problem (shoots way to the left) and a Colt Cobra revolver that will need adding material to the front sight in order to correct an elevation anomaly (shoots way too high).

I am not opposed to having a handgun limited to fixed sights (I have more than a few in my collection). But I do reload; I do compete in Bullseye matches and silhouette contests where the distance to the target varies considerably depending on the venue and I like to hunt game from groundhogs to deer with a handgun where, again, the distance to the target and the loads/bullet weights employed can be quite different, resulting in a discrepancy between poi and poa.

To reiterate, I simply fail to see the downside to adjustable sights.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Frankly, other than increased cost and their unsuitability for use in "deep cover" locations (as I noted earlier in this thread), I fail to see the downside to having adjustable sights on any handgun and there are plenty of "upsides". I have way too many handguns to remember which pistol requires "Kentucky windage" to get the poi to conform to the poa or which pistol requires a six o'clock hold to manage the same.

Kentucky windage generally means adjusting for the drift due to wind -- and THAT can be done, when the cause isn't wind, by shifting the sight. It isn't generally a term used to address elevation issues. If, as you may be doing, you're frequently trying new loads and different weight bullets, then you've got a reason to go the "adjustable" route. I said the same to Bultaco before he left (if he left.)

To address your point, above, there probably aren't many downsides to having adjustable sights (other than cost and a possible impediment to concealed carry -- which more talk about than actually do...), but I think a lot of folks get them without needing them, and after the first adjustment seldom adjust them again.

I wouldn't try to talk an experienced shooter out of getting them -- an experienced shooter has knowledge and may have specialized needs. On the other hand, I would generally advise a relatively new shooter to save his/her money until it's clear that adjustables are really needed.

Similar point: I find it amazing that so many folks feel NIGHT SIGHTS are very important, but those same folks seldom worry about adjustable night sights or fret about how poorly some nights seem to function (as normal sights) in broad daylight! When I buy night sights -- if they're not already on the gun -- I want some with the white rings around the tritium vial. For me, THAT makes a difference.)

For a person with a single gun or a small collection of guns, getting new sights (generally free) from the gun maker, is a very viable option and once you know what you're shooting (load) and how far you're missing due to mis-adjusted sights, it's easy to determine what must be changed.

Brownell's website has a great sight correction tool/calculator to determine the amount of sight adjustment. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=13093/GunTechdetail/Sight_Correction_Calculator

 

[dgludwig]

Quote: ... but I think a lot of folks get them without needing them, and after the first adjustment seldom adjust them again.

But, again, what's the downside to adjustables (other than the aforementioned initial cost factor)? So you don't need them now-which isn't to say that you might not "need" them later?

However, to address a reservation to adjustable sights you made earlier in this thread-to which I agree to a degree, when you made the point that some people might find them "ugly". Aesthetics, at least to me, is a relevant issue- to a point. I, for one, believe that some handguns (mostly those that have some historical relevancy) just plain look "wrong" when they are equipped with an adjustable sight (early Colt sas, P38s and Lugers come to mind). But, of course, these are purely subjective considerations that can only be decided by the individual aficionado.

But, the already enumerated caveats aside, for me, adjustable sights rule and whenever practical and feasible, most of my handguns will always have sights on them that I can adjust with a screwdriver.

 

[Bultaco]

When you purchase a pistol with adjustable sights you know for a FACT that you will be able to shoot poa/poi with your new pistol. many of the newer adj. sights are of a novak style so they don't interfere with concealed carry at all.
Then there is the whole other can of worms concerning rear sight notch width versus front sight width. But, have no fear.
We can all just sit back and wait for Walt to tell us what that really means too.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Then there is the whole other can of worms concerning rear sight notch width versus front sight width. But, have no fear.
We can all just sit back and wait for Walt to tell us what that really means too.

Sight notches and width can be a problem for many different sights, both fixed and adjustable.

As I said earlier, you have your reasons for wanting to use the sights you do -- more power to you.

 

[745SW]

I've had 3 Colt series 70 Gold Cup pistols. Never had an issue with the adj. sights with thousands of rounds fired. But I only used lead/jacketed SWC. A friend during the same time and pistol had the elevation pin walk using jacketed hardball.