Adamant about a .22

I have seen many gunshot wounds, the smaller calliber rounds that were high velocity seemed to look non life threatening to the casual observer. I have seen a man that was shot from less than 10 feet in the face with a 9mm it bounced off his cheekbone and turned downaward and exited out of his knee. Looked like a worm burrowed through him. I have seen a woman that was shot in the lower back with a .38 spcl. wind up quadrapeligic. The bullet went up her spine and lodged in her cervical spine at c-4. Bullets can do strange things in the body. I have seen also a man that was shot 15 times COM with .40 S&W that survied. (A good trauma team, and a top notch surgeon)
As a personal note I carry a .45 ACP, My girfriend carries a 9mm. While .22 is deadly it is usual not fast acting unless some one is shot in the head.
 
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This character is the kind that drives new shooters away, alienates women, etc..

You like the 9mm, you get it! Me, I'd try to steer you towards .40 S&W but we all have our quirks! A nice .22 revolver or semi-auto makes for cheap(er) practice and can be fun but I'll take .38+P and up for personal protection.

Send him packing, no pun intended!
 
The guy is confusing the .22 lr with the .223. The whole bouncing around inside myth was started when the military first started using the .223.

Stick with the 9mm. Get some good +p hollow point loads for carry.

Don't listen to this guys advice on any topic. If he's full of BS on one he'll be full of them on others.
 
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fire many weapons find the one you like
forget about all the technical specs of muzzle velocity, foot pounds, grain weight etc.
The cardinal truth is that it is the marksman that kills not the weapon.
stick with straight, reliable and simple. think about instead of depending on one single shot but a group of three. Larger weapon Larger recoil in general. more recoil more time off target after firing. smaller bullet less possible damage. How much damage is enough?
smaller round less un intentional likely hood of penetrating the villian then the wall then the neighbors wall and so on.
Practice practice practice.
recoil is not a desireable trait of a weapon except if you want to make a big noise or you are on tv.
employ the weapon knowing its limits, and have strategy and some tactic in mind.
when in doubt empty the magazine and or use a shotgun or both could be good !!!

J
 
As somebody funny and perceptive once said, "Beware of experts. An 'ex' is a has-been and a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure." And it sounds like you met the guy whose picture illustrates this definition. ;-)
 
The whole bouncing around inside myth was started when the military first started using the .223.
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A lot of people believe that .22 bullets bounce in the body if they hit bone, which is sometimes true. Most of the time you hear this, however, the person stating it will say something to the effect that the bullet bounces around like a pinball - not so true. I was attended a human remains recovery in-service at the UT Anthropological Research Facility (Body Farm), and the lead wipe inside of one skull touched off a discussion about bullets bouncing. The forensic anthropologist teaching the bulk of the course told us bullets only bounce when they have slowed down-a lot. He had never seen one take a second bounce, and had been an expert witness in a lot of cases.
 
Your 'expert' is right about one thing: a .22 kills very well. However, Mr. Gremlin will have plenty of time to kill you and your family before the .22 does the job.
 
I'm not advocating .22 LR for self defense but there is so much misinformation about rimfire guns from people who obviously offer misguided advice. One argument, for example, is that rimfire is not reliable enough for self-defense. That is not true today -- maybe years ago, but not now. I have NEVER had a .22 rimfire misfire -- EVER. Furthermore, a well-placed .22 shot is as good or better than a poorly placed 9mm or .45.
 
Don't worry about it, Kayla

Your 9mm is just fine.

For shooting COM, it's probability of a quick resolution is a lot higher than a .22's, shot for shot.

Arguably, with the right pistol, you could fire 2 or 3 .22LR in the time you fire one 9mm, but that isn't necessarily true. It depends on your recoil control. Given something on the lines of a Browning Buckmark vs a Browning Hi-Power, I could probably fire 3x .22 per 2x 9mm. Advantage still goes to the 9mm.

For those who think .22LR is unreliable, though, I have to agree with previous posters who noted reliability is typically an issue with bulk ammo. Remington 550 boxes have caused me a fairly high "dud" rate with my revolver and my old (now my friend's new) Ruger 10/22. OTOH, I have never had a problem with Stingers in the revolver (not supposed to be used in most 10/22's) or Mini-Mags in either weapon.

As far as SD effectiveness of a .22LR, I look at it this way: For .38 or 9mm +, I shoot COM. When I practice with a .22LR on silhouettes, I always work on head shots, because that's what I'm going for if all I have in hand is a .22LR.

Luckily, the .22LR I have is a tack driver...

But I don't carry anything smaller than a 9mm for SD.

Anyway, you seem to have come up to speed pretty rapidly, Kayla, and you probably know more than the guy who tried to "educate" you. I really wouldn't let it get to you.

Just be happy you aren't him.
 
The only time I would recommend a .22 LR for self defense is if it is the only thing available or if anything else available is worse (6mm pinfire?). But I will note that hitting the target with a .22 LR is better than a miss with a 9mm or a .45; I would bet on the man with a .22 he knew how to use over a newbie with a big gun he has not learned to shoot.

Along that line, I DO strongly recommend that new shooters learn with a .22 before moving up. A lot of would-be shooters have been turned off the sport by buying a .45 auto, a .357 snubbie, a .44 Magnum, or even a .500 Magnum as their first gun. Unused to the blast and recoil, they find they can't hit anything and take up tennis.

Jim
 
That is not true today -- maybe years ago, but not now. I have NEVER had a .22 rimfire misfire -- EVER.
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Last trip to the range my wife and I took together (in June of this year). We had a combined 6 misfires. 4 out of a box of Federal Bulk pack, and 2 (surprisingly) with CCI Minimag. That was out of 650 rounds burned that day between the Ruger 22/45 and my .22LR SP101. This was current production ammo, not something that had been in the closet for years.

Granted, this is a failure rate of less than 1%. But that 1% can be a real SOB when it happens to be the one round you need to save your bacon. IF, and it's a big if, I was going to rely on a .22LR as a defensive firearm, it would be a DA revolver. If it misfires, pull the trigger again.
 
Here we go again!

The .22 is not ineffective for self-defense. BUT, it is not the best choice mainly because it induces a fairly small wound channel. NO handgun cartridge incapacitates because of kinetic energy or "shocking power" (whatever that is). All handguns are relativeley low-powered and barring a central nervous system hit in brain or spinal cord or causing a fracture of the spine or a long bone such as a femur, will only incapacitate through hemorrhagic effects or direct effects on a vital organ such as the heart.

I am not so confident as some correspondents that writers such as Ayoob are entirely objective and financially uninvolved. Writers like the late Jim Cirillo had much, much, more experience in actual shootouts than has Ayoob. Is the Grantham, New Hampshire PD comparable to the NYPD? Maybe I'm just showing my NYC native bias.

Stick with your 9mm; if you can place your shots you'll be fine.
 
The .22LR cartridge is great for cheap and regular target practice, or for taking small game such as squirrels, rabbits, etc. I shoot a .22LR pistol/revolver weekly, and own three .22LR handguns (in addition to several .22LR rifles).

For SD, I am a believer in the rule that one should carry the largest caliber one can shoot effectively (and carry/conceal daily). If you are proficient with a 9mm, great. If you are a good shot with a .38, great. If you can carry and shoot a .45, good for you.

With that said, I would love for someone to 'volunteer' to be shot in the chest at 5-7 yards with a .22 pistol. Damn right no one is going to volunteer, because we all know a well placed shot can kill you, be it a .22 or .45.
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I've seen this posted so many times that it's become a reflex action to laugh. My standard answer is this:
I hope I am never involved in a gunfight, but if I am, I hope to Hell that my opponent is using a .22, .25, .32, .380...because I will be returning fire with a .357, .41, .45 acp or .45 LC. And I am very comfortable with those odds.

It's all about preparation and training.
 
NH biases

I think Ayoob's point with regard to the advantages of larger calibers (at least in articles of his that I have read) has been that hollowpoints up north, in winter, have often not performed well vs winter-weight clothing.

IE, the cavities jam up with parka material or leather, hindering expansion.

I remember looking at stats a couple years ago, on calibers chosen by various state PD's. The .45 tended to be more popular among states that had more cold weather, on average; I think this would explain the New Hampshire bias toward .45 on Ayoob's part.

I have 9mm's, and I have .45's. I like both. I have ammo that I trust in both calibers. I shoot both about equally well, and about equally quickly.

I've recently opted to ditch my .40/.357SIG, since it creates more blast, and has a snappier recoil. While I could shoot either caliber well, I could shoot faster and, IMO, more effectively with either the 9mm or the .45.

My bias is toward whatever I can shoot the best, with the least self-induced distractions and delays, assuming an acceptable level of performance.

My other biases are toward Cor-Bon, Gold Dot, and Hydra-Shok.

Cheers,
M
 
I've carried a .22 before on a few occasions, mostly on account of lacking other options. The one possible upside is conceal-ability, there's some tiny .22 LR semi-autos out there.

However, these days, there are guns as small and light, if not lighter and smaller, than most .22 pistols available in considerably better calibers. Kel-Tec, Seecamp, Ruger, among others, all have models in that same pocket size and weight offering considerably a bigger boom for while still maximizing conceal-ability. Got myself a Kel-Tec recently, couldn't be happier with it.
 
Bouncing in a skull

A few years back there was a picture of an x-ray circulated on the internet that showed a Korean woman who had shot herself in the head with a .22 and survived. The bullet bounced around a few times and if I remember correctly, it was a .22 short. Does anyone remember the story and/or picture?

Even with that being said, my mother uses a .22 pistol at her house for self-defense. Her arthritis does not allow her to shoot anything much larger and the noise would probably scare away the bad guys pretty quick anyway. I keep a .45 LC revolver next to my bed and a .45/410 Judge in my office for home defense. When I am gimping around the farm I usually have either the Judge or a .40 S&W with me, open carry. I am comfortable with these guns and know how to use them.

OP: Bottom line is you need to shoot what ever you find comfortable, be it a .22 or a shoulder fired recoilless rifle (although if you choose the recoilless rifle, I would definitely stay below the 90mm range :D).
 
While the arguments for a larger caliber than the .22 are certainly valid, I think a very important point has been missed. When using a weapon for self defense such as home invasion as hypothersized in the opening thread, I would opt for a weapon than goes BANG instead of pop. Even if you never hit the perp, you will cause him to change his underwear when utilizing a bigger caliber weapon. And let's face it, the successful outcome is to end the threat, nothing more.
 
A .22 is a great gun to have, and yes, it can be deadly. But with all the other choices out there, it's not a good choice for self-defense.

As far as the ballistic vest, no common handgun is going through one, let alone a .22.
 
The .22 LR can and will kill you.
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So will smoking. Eventually......

I think this would explain the New Hampshire bias toward .45 on Ayoob's part.
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And because NH just rocks the casbah in general. :cool:

I think that the whole tumbling of the 5.56 got started because when you shoot someone with a 5.56, it doesn't always come out in a straight line from where it goes in. I saw a guy shot 2x with 5.56 ball in the upper abdomen, and the bullets didn't come out of the back as expected. They came out of his side, probably because they glanced off bone.
 
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