Active Shooter Targets GOP Congressmen

I don't know what training on active shooters that the Capitol Police have but our local dept.. here has been through training to immediately open fire on the shooter and forget about warnings, etc. in order to end the shooting as quickly as possible.
It's worthless to try and give commands to an active shooter as apparently their officer did.
 

I'm glad we can agree with Armorer-at-law on the utility of arms in this situation.

I see no irony in a congressman who favors 2d Am. right not being armed on a baseball diamond. Being in favor of a right isn't the same as going armed incessantly.
 
"Equal Protection" question for Frank and the other legal eagles:

Could congress pass a law allowing congressmen/women to carry in DC, without it being thrown out as unequal protection as the common citizen isn't included?
 
I see no irony in a congressman who favors 2d Am. right not being armed on a baseball diamond. Being in favor of a right isn't the same as going armed incessantly.

I think most of us get complacent about our security. This entire, largely unguarded, gathering of GOP lawmakers seems ill-advised in hindsight, especially given the extreme rhetoric. I'd bet that they will be more proactive in the future, perhaps even exercising their right of arms for self-defense.
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
Many agencies, especially in the current environment, spend a lot of time emphasizing escalating use of force starting with verbal commands. I can see where if you are in a stressful situation, you reach into the brainbox for whatever training you have to help you deal with that situation.
That was my point. I've read reports of police officers in real-life gun fights who held onto their empty magazine when doing a tactical reload because that's the way they trained. It's axiomatic that we fight as we train -- that's the way our brains are wired, and that's why the only good training is GOOD training -- anything else only entrenches bad habits.

There are situations (I suppose) in which "command voice" may be appropriate. Taking out an active shooter IMHO is not one of those situations.
 
Armed Chicagoan noted:
@TXAZ - Congress exempts itself from laws we unimportant people have to obey all the time.

That seems like that would violate the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th amendment.
 
TXAZ said:
"Equal Protection" question for Frank and the other legal eagles:

Could congress pass a law allowing congressmen/women to carry in DC, without it being thrown out as unequal protection as the common citizen isn't included?
One Republican congresscritter is proposing exactly that in the wake of this incident. He wants members of Congress who have permits from their home states to enjoy reciprocity to carry in DC -- but he's only floating it for members of Congress, not for the rest of us second-class citizens.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/b...-in-dc-after-scalise-shooting/article/2625970
 
This thread has been going well up to now -- great job, all of you who've been discussing this without veering off in unproductive directions. That said, I've deleted a couple of posts which did exactly that.

So here's a warning: let's stick to specifics, not speculate, and not go off into general political ramblings. :)
 
LOL at some of the media reporting regarding this. According to Yahoo (I know I know, not exactly the bastion of accurate reporting anyway), the rifle used is a 7.62 SKS Assault Rifle :eek:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/gun-used-...ult-rifle-112936745--abc-news-topstories.html

Stand by to see stripper clip acceptance as a defining characteristic of an assault weapon in the next ban proposal language. This literally would not surprise me.

Otherwise, I don't believe the media has done that bad of a job considering the size of this political football. He was obviously motivated by far-left ideologies, but you don't see anyone but the fringes of either side making a huge deal out of it yet. Most reporting just seems to point to his political leanings but chalking it up to the fact that he was a little far out mentally.
 
See In In is reporting: ( http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/politics/alexandria-virginia-shooting/index.html )

"Traces were still being done on the two firearms recovered at the scene -- an SKS rifle 7.62 (which is a Chinese-made AK variant) and a 9 mm pistol..."

Proving again, the mass media / CNN in particular doesn't have a clue, as the SKS was actually designed before the AK, and other than the same cartridge, 7.62 x 39mm, doesn't share that much (other than both have wood stocks and metal barrels).
 
"Traces were still being done on the two firearms recovered at the scene -- an SKS rifle 7.62 (which is a Chinese-made AK variant) and a 9 mm pistol..."

Proving again, the mass media / CNN in particular doesn't have a clue, as the SKS was actually designed before the AK, and other than the same cartridge, 7.62 x 39mm, doesn't share that much (other than both have wood stocks and metal barrels).
And no, we don't need to have anyone post that AK 47 meme, no matter how irresistible it may seem after this comment... :cool:
 
LOL at some of the media reporting regarding this. According to Yahoo (I know I know, not exactly the bastion of accurate reporting anyway), the rifle used is a 7.62 SKS Assault Rifle

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/gun-used-s...opstories.html

Stand by to see stripper clip acceptance as a defining characteristic of an assault weapon in the next ban proposal language. This literally would not surprise me.

Otherwise, I don't believe the media has done that bad of a job considering the size of this political football. He was obviously motivated by far-left ideologies, but you don't see anyone but the fringes of either side making a huge deal out of it yet. Most reporting just seems to point to his political leanings but chalking it up to the fact that he was a little far out mentally.

Well to be fair to the story, they did not refer to it as an assault rifle, but assault-style rifle. From your link...

Sources told ABC News that the primary weapon used in shooting was an SKS 7.62 assault-style rifle.

It would also appear that an SKS can be an assault rifle as per Virginia law.

"Assault weapons" are defined as a semi-automatic, centerfire, firearm equipped with a folding/adjustable stock, or equipped at the time with a magazine capable of holding more than 20 rounds, or capable of accommodating a silencer/suppressor. http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter7/section18.2-308.2:2/

Whether or not the actual firearm qualified, I don't know, but an SKS can certainly be made to qualify.
 
Well to be fair to the story, they did not refer to it as an assault rifle, but assault-style rifle.

The title used the term "legally purchased assault rifle," and then only in the text did it say "assault style."

It would also appear that an SKS can be an assault rifle as per Virginia law.

Well, it's possible. I doubt this guy did... but it could happen.
 
Im kinda surprised this guy is 66 committing a crime like this..
I mean once you hit retirement age I'd think you'd be all murdered out by then.

I do wonder what this means for gun laws and the industry.
Sales are slumping.. a gun ban threat no matter how weak it might appear might jump start sales again in panic.

It's one thing when ordinary citizens are getting shot but when it's congressmen whoa buddy I can only wonder what kinda climate change we might face. :rolleyes:

Rand Paul was on the news and asked if it changed his opinion.. he said his opinion changed long ago with the Gabby shooting.

He did not say what his opinion was now but I hope he does not disappoint me with some anti gun BS, It would be a crushing blow to my opinion of him.


P.S It was originally reported as what else.. an ar15
If it was a SKS I wonder if the media will somehow bring the guns Russian origin into play given recent coverage of Russia, That would be hilariously stupid but not at all unlikely.
 
Agreed. But, how do you possibly confuse an SKS with an M4 style rifle?

I don't know, but how could TAG determine it wasn't an assault rifle without actually seeing the gun?

While some variants of the SKS have detachable magazines, the majority of SKS models have fixed magazines and hold only ten rounds at a time. The fixed magazine and low capacity means that this rifle would not be classified as an “assault rifle” under any of the current or proposed “assault weapons ban” legislation.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...ngress-baseball-shooter-used-sks-9mm-handgun/

That is interesting. They have made a determination because not all SKS guns have a detachable magazine, that the gun would not qualify, despite the fact that there are plenty such guns around, or that have folding stocks, etc. all of which would cause the gun to qualify.

As for the confusion of gun type,
One of he witnesses told CNN as I watched yesterday that he went over and saw the rifle and that it was an M1, not M4, but M1 and that they came with 10, 20, or 30 round magazines. The guy was fairly explicit. That was picked up here...http://newburghgazette.com/2017/06/15/netanyahu-israel-stands-with-victims-of-shooting-attack-on/

The title used the term "legally purchased assault rifle," and then only in the text did it say "assault style."

Okay, well IF it had any of those features listed, then by Virginia law, it IS an assault rifle. SKS is a semi auto centerfire rifle and there are variants that take 30 round mags. I have shot one. I have shot one that had a folding stock. They aren't rare. By VA law, that would be an assault weapon. It is fairly easy to quality under VA law.

I noticed truth about guns playing down the angle, saying it would not be classified as an assault weapon by any law...

While some variants of the SKS have detachable magazines, the majority of SKS models have fixed magazines and hold only ten rounds at a time. The fixed magazine and low capacity means that this rifle would not be classified as an “assault rifle” under any of the current or proposed “assault weapons ban” legislation.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...ngress-baseball-shooter-used-sks-9mm-handgun/

So here you have a pro-gun report making the same sort of stupid mistake y'all are ranting about the media. TAG has decided that the shooter's weapon doesn't quality because most SKS guns would not. They haven't seen the gun either, but made a determination.

This isn't a percentages game. Either it qualifies or it doesn't. Until the weapon is shown or described at length, complaining that the media is wrong is not with justification.

Folks always want to blame the media and while the media often reports incorrect information, they often are given incorrect information, like the assault rifle found in the trunk of Lanza's car at Sandy Hook, an identification made by the cops and reported by the media, but the gun turned out to be a shotgun.
 
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