Accurate mil-surp

M

MilitaMatters

Inactive
looking for an accurate (1-3MOA) military surplus rifle in a caliber that is still easily found in most places, such as big box stores. I can't really afford to spend very much on it, $600-$700USD would be about the maximum I could afford.

I am fascinated with the old military rifles because they were used throughout history to win battles by soldiers. As a super HOOAH pre-boot future soldier, I guess the fact that they are combat proven is alluring to me.
I could get a modern hunting rifle in .308 or .338, but it just wouldn't be the same. The Lee-Enfield Ishapore 2A1 rifles seem like my best option at the moment but I am still unsure if there is something better/cheaper out there.

As a secondary, but not required perk, something that can be drilled and tapped for a side-mount scope would be preferable.

Lastly, what are your experiences with the rifle(s) you suggest? Reliable? Garbage?

Thank you all for your assistance and opinions,

-MM
 
If you want accurate milsurp for under 600...

Swede M96, in 6.5x55, can still be had in your price range. The last two I purchased were 250 and 350 respectively.

Swiss K31, not in a common caliber, but very accurate straight pull rifle. Ammo is available, just not "gas station" common.

Mosin Nagant, two suggestions, 1, anything Finnish, 2, PU Sniper variant, replicas are available in your price range and 7.62x54r is very common.

Hope this is helpful.

Jimro
 
[RE Jimro]

Yea, I have heard some pretty good stuff about the Finn made weapons. Accurate and reliable. Just worried about the ammo availability as 6.5 swede isn't exactly common around here :D However, I do believe I saw some in a Bass Pro shop a few days ago. Guess I'll need to recheck their online catalog to see if they carry it at that location.

The K31 would probably be the one I would buy, as I'm not really a fan of the other Mauser variant. And Mosin Nagants, from what I've seen, are pretty garbage as well. Any word on the Finnish captures being at all better? If they are, I might look into getting one of them as well, so long as the price is right.

Thanks for your input, it helps out a lot.

-MM
 
look for one of the isreali 98 mauser,s in .308 already D&T,ed. i bought a german 98 mauser in 8mm D&T,ed with the stock cut down for 150.00 with a ex bore. its a fine shooter. eastbank.
 
The K31 would probably be the one I would buy, as I'm not really a fan of the other Mauser variant. And Mosin Nagants, from what I've seen, are pretty garbage as well. Any word on the Finnish captures being at all better? If they are, I might look into getting one of them as well, so long as the price is right.
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Any Finnish rifle that was remade to Finish M39 or 28/30 specs is going to be accurate as long as the bore is in good condition. These are generally the best of the Mosin Nagants.

The Russian 91/30 PU sniper variants are often surprisingly good at accuracy if you feed them good ammunition. Many of the 91/30s straight out of crates have pristine bores, which unfortunately often get ruined by corrosive surplus ammo and people who don't know to flush the bore with hot water after shooting.

As far as the Israeli 308 Mausers, if you can find one with a good bore it is probably a good deal. Those have really dried up on the market though because they were such an easy conversion to a 300 magnum or already sported and left in 308.

8mm Mausers are all over the map as far as accuracy goes, the M48s will often come with really good bores, but there are very limited options for good 8x57 ammunition. I think 6.5x55 is a better choice for the Mauser platform.

But right now most of the good milsurp rifle platforms better than a Mosin Nagant are well into "entry level Savage" price ranges.

Jimro
 
I would also add the 1903 and 1903a3 springfields. They are at the high end of your price range but are very accurate if the bore is dencent. 30-06 ammo is very easy to find. I also agree with the swedish mauser and the k31 both of them have been very accurate for me. As far as 8mm mausers go Czech mausers have been accurate for me as well.
 
Battle rifles of the vintage you're looking at were not made for 1 MOA accuracy. 3 MOA, if you get lucky with the barrel and use good ammo, is possible. Sniper variants, you'll unlikely be able to find for your budget in decent condition, will do 1 MOA with good ammo though.
Lee-Enfield Ishapore 2A1 rifles don't take scoping well. Most of the currently available mounts for No. 1 Mk III Lee-Enfields(the 2A/2A1 is an Indian, purpose built, clone of the No. 1 Mk III, .303, Lee-Enfield. Same mounts.) are poor.
D&T any milsurp that hasn't been sporterised will turn your $600-$700 rifle into a $200 or less rifle as well. Wouldn't discount a properly sporterised milsurp though.
"...a caliber that is still easily found in most places..." Good thinking. Limits your options though. Think .308 or .30-06. Sometimes 6.5 x 55. Highly unlikely you'll find 7.62 x 54R Russian, but maybe. Look in Wal-Mart at what they carry and go with what they carry. Usually, if one has it, they all will.
You also need to think about the cost of ammo. Milsurp ammo is virtually gone. Reloading helps. Also lets you use much better ammo.
"...are pretty garbage as well..." Nope, but what's left on the milsurp market is the low end of the barrel condition wise. The Mosins we had in the shop years ago, were all dead on target at 200 yards. Even with the crappy triggers and sights. "Years ago" is 35 plus. Back when the only ammo available was high priced Norma stuff.
 
P17 Enfield

I was lucky to pick up a P17 Enfield in 30-06, last year for $700 from a shooter at our range. He bought it from a guy who was a airplane mechanic for Chennault's Flying Tigers. It has a long sight radius, and one just won the mill-surp competition at Camp Perry.

I also just {two years ago} acquired a 1903 Carl Gustav M96 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser for around $375
 
I like the Model of 1917 a great deal, as noted it has a good long sight radii and a very good peep sight that can be shrunk down for a better sight picture (JB Weld)

SK makes a non intrusive scope mouton for it that works as well though I can shoot it better with the irons (and my eyes are not that good) black 3 inch ball on white paper at 100 I do ok with

note: all original 1917s were 30-06, P14s were 303.

I am also interested in the 7.5 x 55 Swiss, though I will get a barrel for my Savage long action and put it on at some point. Plenty of the 1917s to shoot and some 1903As.

There is brass for it, powders are common to the 06 and 308 and you can use the 30 cal bullets for a wide selection.
 
I don't know about your area, but in Western PA, 8mm Mauser is not an easy to find "big box store" ammo. Walmart doesn't have it, Dicks sporting goods doesn't have it, and the smaller shops are hit and miss with sky-high prices. Haven't tried cabellas or gander mountain that aren't too far, but far from convenient.
 
[RE]

Mosin Nagants are "...Spot on at 200 yards..." so long as they have good barrels? Anyone know if there is truth to this? If there is, Tula 7.62x54r is really common where I am in California. Haven't had a rifle that fires the 54r so I have no clue if Tula ammo is decent or not. Just cheap and plentiful.


As for the K31, how much are the ZFK55's going for now? Can someone tell me if they've had any experience with it? My primary concern is the scope mount holding its zero in the field. Otherwise, it would be perfectly suited for my tastes. If I manage to find the ammo for it.

-MM
 
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I might have the perfect compromise. Buy a sporterized export Mauser. Back in the 60s and 70s, loads of large ring 98s, FN 98s and DWM 1909s were re-barreled for bench shooting and hunting purposes. My favorite all-time hunting rig is a 1909 arg rebarreled to 243, 22". It shoots 5/8" x 5 and is great all around hunting rig, AKA tack driver. These guns have little collectors value, have often had over $1000 worth of smithing (2016 dollars after applying inflation), and can often be bought for around $500. A lot of the old stocks are ridiculously ugly, but easy enough to replace.

I collect military original bolt actions, which are fantastic to collect, but rarely expect 3" accuracy from them. You do NOT want to drill and tap these old guns, it will kill the value.

2c
 
Keeping in mind the "minute of man" intent, I would lean toward the 1903A3. These had the peep sight rather than the earlier ladder sight, giving you a much longer sight radius. I have a 1943 Remington 4 groove with the original barrel, and find it to be a great shooter. Preferring to keep my mislurps as close to original as possible, would never scope it, I have other rifles for that, but plenty have been scoped in the last century if that is your wish. As has been said, 30-06 in many flavors is about as common as water, and stone simple to reload.

I have a couple of Enfields, but I find i prefer the 03 to them.

I also agree on the Swiss K31. However, for accuracy i might also suggest the model of 1911. It has a longer barrel with the accompanying longer sight radius. Mine is actually a model of 1896 which was arsenal converted to the 1911 standard, so it's a 96/11. I actually like shooting this one more than my K31. I have been jealously hoarding my stash of Swiss G11 ammo, but have found the PPU to be good stuff, not too hard to find online, and reloadable to boot.

I have other bolt milsurps in my collection, but these are the ones i find go to the range the most.

Oh, one last thought, it doesn't fit your "easy to find ammo" criterion, but if you ever have the opportunity to shoot a Krag, do so. It is the most butter smooth bolt i have ever experienced in a stock milsurp. OF course, with only the one lug, it should be LOL. Ammo hard to score, so i hoard brass like a miser. Just thought i would mention it just because working that smooth action will bring on that dreamy smile of honoring an earlier era.

Just my 2-1/2 cents. YMMV
 
I'm sorry but your thought processes baffle me OP. first you want a gun that actually served in war time by soldiers to win wars, then you select the Ishapore 2A1, a modification of an actual wartime production model that never actually served and does not shoot the original cartridge. :confused:another thing that confuses me is you want a rifle with historical military significance and then plan to take a drill press to it in order to bolt a modern chunk of sheet metal to, in effect destroying any historical or collectors value the weapon once had.

my personal recommendation would be to invest in two separate rifles. the first would be a sporterized rifle, one of those would already have all of the historical value removed by someone else who just wanted a functional rifle for their purposes and if need be you could drill and tap that one. meanwhile you could purchase another one and keep it military original, with all of the historical, and collectors value remaining intact. given your price point I would say the Swedish mauser family would be good for you. they are just a little more expensive but 6.5x55mm ammo is just as easy to find, if not easier to find than 303 brit and they generally tend to be more accurate. sure they never served in any of the world wars but they were used by a standing military. second choice would be the number 4 enfields, there are millions of them, 303 brit ammo is easy to find, and they have some of the best sights(not to mention ammo capacity) of any of the WWII bolt rifles.
 
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I love the K31, but wouldn't recommend it for a scoped rifle. Mounts are awkward. My swiss made G11 are all Berdan primed and somewhat dirty to shoot. The 7.5 swiss is anything but a corner store cartridge. '06 never a bad route. Too bad its so hard to find an original scoped version of the 1903, that would be a keeper.
 
Winchester P17 Enfield parts, might be harder to find than the Remington's and the Eddystone's.

I do have a 1943 Izzy PU sniper, with all matching numbers, except for the PU 3.5x scope. There are a lot of fakes out there. Mine shoots 1 3/4" moa @ 100 yards --- 3 shoot group with Russian N1 corrosive sniper ammo.

Getting a mil-surp rifle with all matching numbers is important in relation to the value of rifle.
 
Getting a mil-surp rifle with all matching numbers is important in relation to the value of rifle.
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Only to some people, with some guns. ;)

you won't find US milsurps with "all matching numbers". We didn't number them like that.
 
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