Accidentially reengaging my 1911 safety

[RickB]

There is that! Some safeties have a very weak detent function, and the dimple in the face of the safety can be enlarged or deepened so the plunger resists safety movement.
I've drilled the detent deeper on just about all of my guns, as, while I don't really have much concern about a safety that is bumped off in the holster - it's still in the holster with the trigger covered - I absolutely cannot tolerate a safety that engages without my distinct and intentional urging.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

No, it wasn't. That rule is as old as triggers.

I respectfully disagree. I don't know how old you are, but I'm old enough to have grown up during the high period of television westerns and cop shows like Dragnet and Highway Patrol. It was very common -- in fact, normal -- to see people drawing or picking up guns and immediately putting their finger on the trigger. If you subscribe to or buy Firearms News (formerly Shotgun News) and read any of Paul Scarlata's article on historical military weaponry of various countries, a large majority of the photos showing people holding firearms show the finger on the trigger.

Keeping the finger off the trigger until ready to fire is a comparatively new concept, at least as a safety rule that's taught and enforced by instructors.

 

[Don P]

Using a small file you increase the indent at the plunger point of contact. thus making it more deliberate on and off

 

[Unclenick]

Aguila Blanca,

I think it is more accurate to say the practice became widely popular only a good deal of time after Jeff Cooper codified it in the third of his four rules for safe gun handling. He, however, said the Marine Corps did it long before then. He also commented more than once that he was pleased to see it being presented with greater frequency over time and to be glad to see photographs of soldiers in Iraq doing it. So even the military trainers didn't all take to it right away.

You can see an example in the two images from a WWII government training film below. The participants in the film were not at all consistent in this practice, but given that the exception disproves the rule, the fact it is shown at all makes it clear the idea was known and taught to at least some military recruits at the time.

 

[g.willikers]

It was very common -- in fact, normal -- to see people drawing or picking up guns and immediately putting their finger on the trigger.

TV shows and movies have never been trustworthy sources of knowledge.
Even the so called historical versions are more fiction than fact.
It isn't called "Sillywood" for nothing.
Although to their credit, the gun handling has definitely improved in movies and some tv shows lately.
Maybe the popularity of ccw has had an effect.

 

[salvadore]

No, I have never engaged the 1911 thumb safety accidentally. I asked this before and didn't get an answer. Are there any stats comparing ADs from (trigger safety only?) compared to shooters with thumb safeties?

 

[Koda94]

I still think this whole thing is a mechanical failure with the OPs gun. The thumbs forward grip is common and will never engage the safety unintentionally for any reason.... he describes from recoil.

 

[44 AMP]

Keeping the finger off the trigger until ready to fire is a comparatively new concept, at least as a safety rule that's taught and enforced by instructors.

Is the 50+ years that I've been interested in firearms "recent" enough?

50 years ago I was helping my father give Hunter Safety classes. It was taught then. I'm pretty confident it was taught before, LONG before, as I said, I think about as long as there have been triggers.

And, there have been people who don't follow that rule JUST AS LONG!

All those old (and even new) movies and TV shows are NOT TEACHING TOOLS, they are entertainment, and as such "dramatic" visual effect often counts for more in the director's eye than ACCURATE safe gun handling.

The old photos are the same, in that regard. They are NOT taken to show safe and proper gun handling, they are either posed photos (where the gun is known to be unloaded and people put fingers on triggers for the photo effect) OR they are candid shots, simply showing how many people DO put their fingers on the trigger, despite what they have been taught.

Why do you think all the military bolt actions (and many semi autos) have two stage triggers??? Simply put, it is because both the militaries and the designers of the time recognized that no matter how much, or how well you teach and train them, soldiers ARE going to put their fingers on their triggers when it "drops in the pot" as well as during less stressful times.

The first stage slack/take up was the way they chose to reduce the risk.

The rule is not new, it has been taught since day one, the only thing "new" is greater emphasis on it, especially with modern firearms.

Are there any stats comparing ADs from (trigger safety only?) compared to shooters with thumb safeties?

None that I know of, however, you can get a general idea from the AD stats with GLocks in their early years, as they were the first common semi WITHOUT a safety in the usual sense. And how the NYC police required GLock to create a HEAVIER trigger pull, after an "excessive" number of ADs with the (then) new pistol.

I see here on the web people often talking about "Cooper's 4 rules", and would like to point out that there are a good dozen or so "rules" for safe gun handling. Taught by the NRA, and (at least they used to be) listed in owner's manuals, etc. Cooper's 4 rules are the "short form", the primary, most important ones when you handle defensive arms. The others should never be ignored, when safety is the primary goal, but they are less important than the primary 4, and may not be practical in a defensive firearm.

One rule is keeping the chamber empty, except when you are ready to shoot. Fine for game hunting (other than dangerous game) but not a good idea for a cop, etc.

The same for opening the action /unloading the gun when crossing a fence or other obstacle. Common sense safety, but not a high priority in defensive gun use, where is where Cooper was focused a lot of the time.

Hardly a fair analogy. More like buying a car that has 4 wheels (no thumb safety) instead of 5 (an extra, superfluous safety) because you don't need 5 to get around.

Sorry, I have to disagree with that analogy. The safety isn't a "superfluous extra" like a spare tire. It is more like the "Park" position of the selector lever of an automatic transmission. It's not "needed" many cars don't have one (manual transmissions, and some early automatics), but it is handy and useful.

The "spare tire" of your handgun is the extra magazine. NOT needed for "getting around" but handy to have, when the one in your gun "goes flat".

 

[Unclenick]

Are there any stats comparing ADs from (trigger safety only?) compared to shooters with thumb safeties?

I agree with 44 AMP's point on the NYPD example. I'll add that I don't think AD's are the only concern. Children getting hold of guns is another. We, as responsible gun owners, are not supposed to let that happen, but "supposed to" doesn't happen every time, as annual accident figures reveal. It's just a fact of human frailty.

I also remember reading years ago about a highway patrol officer who was cold-cocked by someone he'd pulled over, who then took the unconscious officer's gun from his holster and tried to shoot him were he lay helpless. The bad boy couldn't get the trigger pulled, so he started looking for a lever and succeeded in dropping the magazine out. This was one of S&W designs that won't fire without a magazine in place, so by the time the troll actually found and depressed the safety, he still couldn't fire it. In frustration, he threw the gun at the prostrate officer and drove off.

Sometimes, harder-to-discharge is a good thing.

Regarding Cooper's four rules, they are carefully contrived and not merely a short form. John Plähn, who shot the Bear Lake Leather Slaps and later in the South Western Combat Pistol League, had a Ph.D in physical education and a keen interest in instructional psychology. Cooper was signficantly influenced by him. Plähn did a kinematic analysis of the Weaver stance, and broke the presentation down into teachable steps. He applied teaching psychology. In the classroom on my first visit to Gunsite, Cooper made a point of stopping every 20 minutes for a five minute break for everyone to stand and take a drink of water because Plähn had research showing that even an adult can't normally remain completely focused on a classroom lecture for more than 20 minutes before intermittent mind wandering or drifting to other thoughts occurs. Cooper made a point of writing each of the four rules on a blackboard while we watched, explaining each one after writing it because Plähn had research showing that minds retain things they've watched written out much better than things they've either merely read or heard. He mentioned that he kept the rules to four because Plähn had pointed out the average person's ability to recall important points diminished rapidly as the number exceeded four. So he limited the count to those four things most likely to prevent a gun owner from shooting someone or something he didn't intend to or wasn't willing to see shot.

The NRA training materials have us teach the instruction committee's longer set of safety rules, but I always take students through Cooper's four afterward, presenting them as closely as I can to the way Cooper presented them to my class. It had emotional impact as well as being a recitation. Finishing with Rule 3, he asked, "what's the first thing most people do when they pick up a gun? Grasp it with their index finger on the trigger to pick it up, putting pressure on the trigger. When it goes "boom", what is the first thing they say?" "I didn't know it was loaded." He then raised his hand and tapped the first rule with his knuckle. "See Rule 1", he said. His countenance was stern, serious and clear. You couldn't ignore it. It wasn't just a set of rules, it was a recitation, in the poetic sense. Perhaps even theater. By whatever description, it did the job. Nobody forgot.