Accidental discharge?

I typically follow the rule if "when in doubt, check".

Rack the slide several times and visually/physically check the chamber, and follow normal range procedures, following the rules stated for said range.

I think the only time I've had a problem was what a believe is called a slam fire. Happened when I was first learning how to shoot a handgun. Loaded up a magazine, had the handgun pointed down range. Released the slide to go home and the round went off as the slide went home and loaded the round. Turned out to just be the parts being too old and worn down.

Anyway, the guy made a bad decision, if he was genuinely apologetic and upset at his mistake, then I'll let it slide, perhaps introduce a no phones on the range, they nut be kept separate from the firearms and you cannot be handling a firearm while operating their phone, and the weapon must be cleared before leaving it.

Humans are not infallible, we make mistakes, as such, we make amends to try and fix that mistake. If it happens again, then all bets off and that's when you should take more harsh disciplinary actions IMHO.
 
Fair enough Frankettin. It's habit for me to check when I finish firing regardless. I also always drop the magazine and lock the bolt to the rear if possible. I try to make this a habit, especially if I'm not sure if there is a round in the chamber or not. I really should look into getting some chamber flags though. Can never be too safe IMO.

That was drilled into me during basic and by my uncle. Yes, indeed, always check and treat a gun as if it is loaded at any given time, even if you are sure it is not. The golden rule to gun safety, do that and you'll likely never have a negligent discharge. Weapon malfunctions not withstanding (such as the slam fire issue I mentioned earlier. In that case though, I was at the ready and had it aimed in a direction I intended to shoot on a known hot range)

Poor wording on my part, sorry about that.
 
Still no reply yet by OP, 45Gunner.
I wonder if he's waiting until the topic has ceased all activity before responding?

I wonder if he's going to print a hard copy of the entire discussion and suggest the person in question reads the printout?

Might I suggest that if y'all are at the range and thatguy is reading a print-out of this thread, the rest of you keep him away from all the guns, ammo, gasoline, matches, heavy equipment, power tools, prescription meds, sharp objects, holes in the ground, noxious gases, poison ivy....

...or anything else he might handle, manipulate, wander in to, fall off of, or poke himself in the eyeball with in the event he's paying too much attention to the printed thread that he forgets the cardinal rules of gun handling safety due to his preoccupation?

(yes, laid that on thick, I'll admit it. Might even come off as obnoxious, but keep in mind that an obnoxious reply in a discussion forum is still less egregious than a bullet headed down range where three guys happen to be standing.)
 
He said he couldn’t remember if he cleared his gun. His cell phone was in one hand and the gun in the other. The magazine was removed but instead of putting down the cell phone to rack the slide to visually check the chamber, he pointed the gun down range and pulled the trigger.
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I have been watching this thread for a few days and waiting for someone to say this explicitly, but it has not happened:

This is not the way you clear a gun.

This seems to me to be such a basic failure that I would have a very difficult time trusting the guy. Poison ivy might be OK, because he can only harm himself, but the rest of Sevens's list is valid.
 
While I agree with you completely that it's a horrendous way to clear a gun... we have to keep in mind that dropping the hammer on an empty chamber is pretty much explicitly what they order in most competition, after (of course!) showing clear to the RO. So what he did was a very familiar and "normal" procedure in competition...

But absolutely, the guy is (vehemently, IMO) a serious problem and he needs to GO AWAY. :mad:
 
I understand your argument, Sevens, but there is a huge difference between "dropping the hammer on an empty chamber . . . after (of course!) showing clear to the RO" and "he couldn’t remember if he cleared his gun."

But yes, you and I agree on the big picture. Care and attention was dangerously lacking.
 
Oh, it was NEVER meant to be any manner of defense for his actions. Frankly, I'm angry about this guy and I'm nowhere and no how connected to this entire thing, except via this thread.

All I was saying is that dropping the hammer on an empty chamber is actually taught and, well, required in many (most?) competition circles.

Of course, that EMPTY CHAMBER has been visually checked and confirmed by two people before the hammer is dropped on it. This guy shouldn't be shooting handguns in any place where people... go. :(
 
I won't speak to whether or not He should be dropped from the team as I wasn't there and don't know him.
As to negligent discharges, I believe Jeff Cooper covered the subject well enough:
1. ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded
2. NEVER point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy
3. Keep finger OFF trigger until ready to fire
4. ALWAYS know your target and what's behind it

Maybe a simplistic response, but these rules have served me well for a very long time.
 
There is no such thing as an Accidental Discharge, only Negligent Discharges......
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As someone who investigated shooting incidents, I respectfully disagree. An Accidental Discharge is where the shooter did not intentionally fire the weapon. A Negligent Discharge occurs when the shooter does intend to shoot but misses (or shoots through) the intended target creating the risk of striking someone or something unintended because of their action.

Neither one is worse than the other as both put people at risk and/or create liability for the shooter (and his/her agency). For quite some time now action has been taken when an accidental discharge occurs but (fortunately) negligence is now getting some much needed attention. Anyone who has attended recent NRA Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor schools know that having 1 or more rounds unaccounted for (misses) during qualification is an automatic fail. Many LE agencies are going with this example as well to make sure that it is documented that staff are trained and tested on not putting the public at risk. YMMV
 
saleen322 said:
Anyone who has attended recent NRA Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor schools know that having 1 or more rounds unaccounted for (misses) during qualification is an automatic fail.
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I have yet to see a law enforcement qualification where the decent shooters don't easily shoot one ragged hole in the center of the target. How do you account for all of those rounds? How do you know if the last few rounds went through the hole or completely missed the target?
 
The two most common ways, there may be more:

1. Do enough target changes that you can verify the exact number of rounds fired;
2. The Range Officer is satisfied that all rounds are present and signed off on the target as a "Pass."
 
1. Do enough target changes that you can verify the exact number of rounds fired;
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Do you have any documentation of a law enforcement qualification course that includes target changes to track rounds fired?

2. The Range Officer is satisfied that all rounds are present and signed off on the target as a "Pass."
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In other words, no one ever "misses". ;)
 
The most recent course I saw detailing this was the qualification in the NRA Patrol Rifle Instructor course.

If the only hole is a 3"-4" hole in the center of a 24" X 45" target and the hole appears to have the approximate "wear" of the total rounds fired, the Instructor may use his/her judgement. YMMV
 
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