Accidental Discharge after falling out....

If his "Western style" Ruger was an old three screw model that did not have the transfer bar modification, then if he was carrying one under the hammer, and he dropped it on the hammer, the pistol will discharge.

This three screw has the factory installed transfer bar.

RugerThreeScrewSerialnumbererasedDS.jpg


This one does not.

IMG_0289inbox.jpg


You cannot tell until you cock the hammer and look into the mechanism.
 
I've found that the press seldom gets the relevant details in their gun stories.

I really doubt the Ruger hit the floor and just went off but I don't have the facts.

I wish the police departments would examine the weapons in these cases, but I guess it doesn't matter legally whether he pulled the trigger or it fell and went off. It would be nice if they did an investigation and published results like "the weapon did not malfunction, there was no way it could have fired without the trigger being pulled."

There are a lot of gun owners who post about their fear of civil suits if they use this kind or that kind of ammo, or use reloads, or have trigger jobs, etc, etc... it seems to have seeped into the collective consciousness of the shooting community.

Maybe some gun owners need to have their pants sued off for their stupid carry-schemes, including but not limited to Mexican carry, and some people’s insistence that their favorite pistol really is a “pocket pistol”. Until the top-heavy thing falls out of their “pocket”. After a few dozen gun owners get sued for either their NDs or their guns falling out, maybe it will seep into the shooting community’s consciousness how important it is to have a quality holster / retention system for carrying their firearms.
 
Hammer down on a chambered round safety off in a basic 1911 could fire if dropped on the hammer.

Nope. The firing pin isn't long enough to rest on the primer in a 1911. If the hammer is down on a chambered round (not a wise idea anyway), no amount of wailing on that hammer is going to get the firing pin to ignite the primer.
 
Maybe some gun owners need to have their pants sued off for their stupid carry-schemes, including but not limited to Mexican carry, and some people’s insistence that their favorite pistol really is a “pocket pistol”. Until the top-heavy thing falls out of their “pocket”. After a few dozen gun owners get sued for either their NDs or their guns falling out, maybe it will seep into the shooting community’s consciousness how important it is to have a quality holster / retention system for carrying their firearms.

It might change some minds, but really? Suing someone just because their gun fell out of their pocket? For starters, who gets to file the lawsuit? Who's the "injured party"? If Bob drops his gun at a sporting event, can every other spectator at the event sue him individually, or would it be a class-action lawsuit?

I realize I'm being a little flippant, but the reality is that unless an unsafe act actually results in an injury or damage, I don't think that a lawsuit is an appropriate tool.
 
I don't know what it takes to change it, more mandatory education? More time spent in carry classes on holsters and carrying?

The whole shooting community seems to know that having "Kill em all, Let God sort em out" engraved on your gun and loading it with Zombie Max ammo for EDC is likely to earn you a civil lawsuit in a shooting, but there are still yahoos out there that haven't figured out that you have to carry your firearm in such a way that it doesn't fall out and hit the floor when you go to take a dump?

I think the guy who was standing at the urinal probably has a pretty good case for pschological trauma "Your honor, ever since that day, I have nightmares where I am using the urinal and... BLAM..., in addition to that, even during my waking moments I have an intense fear now of using public restrooms" :)
 
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Dropped my SA Loaded model from the 80s 4 foot onto my floor. Scared the s*** outta me but no discharge. Safetys can fail but this prolly wasnt the case
 
Basic 1911 can fire if dropped

And it doesn't matter if it is cocked or not, or if the safety is on or off. This is because the accidental firing doesn't involve the hammer.

I say basic 1911 because any version that has the firing pin block (FPB) will not fire, since the firing pin cannot move unless the trigger is being pulled.

And it requires perhaps a weak firing pin spring, so that the firing pin is held away from the primer with less than normal force. Then, if the 1911 is dropped muzzle down and hits a hard floor, the firing pin might move forward with enough force to make it go "bang".

This is not common but it has happened. My friend is lucky to have all his toes after another man dropped his Commander right next to my friend's foot. Yup, "bang", with bits of bullet spraying around off the concrete floor.

So this is the reason that FPBs are on many of the newer 1911 models, including Colts.

Bart Noir
 
Maybe it wasn't a Ruger. There are a lot of Uberti/Cimarron/etc SAA's around these days without transfer bars. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the police or a reporter got that wrong.
 
These days, even most of the reproductions have some sort of drop safety on them.

Even if it was a gun that wasn't drop safe, the shooter is still responsible. He either knew or should have known not to carry a round under the hammer in a gun that wasn't drop safe.
 
Unmodified old model 3 screw Rugers seem to be more highly sought after by Ruger SA collectors.

Just a idea, but if he was carrying a SA gun to begin with, he is probably a fan/collector (Too many other carry options) and may very well had an older model without the transfer bar. If that is the case though, he should be charged b/c he should know to carry it properly with the hammer down on am empty cylinder
 
Given the right circumstances...

Even a series '80 Colt can fire in the right circumstances. WITH the Firing Pin Block.

It happened September 13, 2000 at Borg Imaging at 200 White Spruce Blvd., Brighton, NY.

Cocked and locked Rochester PD officer's duty weapon discharged when it was sucked into an MRI machine. When the gun was recovered, the safety was still on, the hammer was back at full cock and the spent casing was still in the chamber. Colt Commander, Series '80.

http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/178/5/1092

Short of that set of circumstances or something equally unforseeable, I can see holding the possessor of the gun responsible. How far you want to go with that is probably a question for the ballot. In the meantime, reckless endangerment is available. I am definitely with TennJed on this
TennJed said:
Unmodified old model 3 screw Rugers seem to be more highly sought after by Ruger SA collectors.

Just a idea, but if he was carrying a SA gun to begin with, he is probably a fan/collector (Too many other carry options) and may very well had an older model without the transfer bar. If that is the case though, he should be charged b/c he should know to carry it properly with the hammer down on am empty cylinder

Lost Sheep
 
Short of that set of circumstances or something equally unforseeable...
And equally unlikely. ;)

My guess is that the magnetic field was so strong that it was actually able to manipulate the internal parts and probably deactivated the firing pin safety.

I guess it proves that there's no such thing as impossible...
 
Fascinating story

JohnKSa said:
My guess is that the magnetic field was so strong that it was actually able to manipulate the internal parts and probably deactivated the firing pin safety.

I guess it proves that there's no such thing as impossible...
I asked an MRI tech if the machine could actually set off a primer. She said they were told in their training that it could but the exact mechanism was not explained. Just a warning not to have firearms or ammunition in the MRI room.

I have been thinking about emailing the investigating officer to ask if anyone looked for a firing pin indentation on the primer.

I didn't think electromagnetic emanations could penetrate into the interior of the pistol, but 1.5 Teslas is a lot of energy (edit: not energy, field strength). I do not know but assume there was a magazine in the gun if there was a round in the chamber. The rounds in the mag should have cooked off first, I think.
Ben Towe said:
And who packs a gun into the same room as an MRI machine?!? That's just not smart.
Everybody makes mistakes. Supposedly the technician told the officer to go into the room without asking about a gun, and the officer did not ask, either.

Stupid? Maybe. Or maybe he was distracted about his (I assume) medical test. Who knows?

Lost Sheep
 
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Short of that set of circumstances or something equally unforseeable...

Unforseeable?

Sorry, but there was nothing even remotely unforseeable about that ND. That would be like calling it unforseeable that your loaded firearm would fire after being thrown into a burning hot furnace. Actually it is almost exactly the same thing.
 
Thanks to Lost Sheep for posting the MRI article. You saved me from digging around for the URL.


JohnKSa said:
My guess is that the magnetic field was so strong that it was actually able to manipulate the internal parts and probably deactivated the firing pin safety.

I guess it proves that there's no such thing as impossible...
Which is why gun safety rules tell us to Remember, a gun's mechanical safety device is never foolproof. Nothing can ever replace safe gun handling.

Almost all modern revolvers include some sort of safety device to prevent a discharge if the gun is dropped. The S&W hammer-block system was introduced in 1943 and fitted to their post-war guns. Colt used a variation and switched to a floating firing pin & transfer bar configuration. Sturm Ruger uses a transfer bar system in most of it's wheelguns, including the SA sixgun.

As covered before, an Old 3-screw Ruger SA w/o the safety upgrade being used for CCW and fully loaded is just stupid.

You'd think people could figure this out for themselves, but here we go anyhow.

Public Restroom Procedure:

When sitting in a stall in a public restroom, your firearm should, ideally, remain in the holster. This is not always practical for every situation. For instance, in a crowded restroom, with your holster near your ankle, there is a chance someone could reach under to attempt to steal your gun. Or simply the presence of the gun could create a panic.

There is only one practical location to which you can remove the gun and be assured you will not forget to take the gun with you. That is to place it inside your pants. Cradle it in your underwear. This way, when you are finished, you cannot forget to secure your weapon before leaving the stall.

For those of you who object because you don't wear underwear.. you're on your own.
 
Now what's the bigger risk? Getting gun oil on the insides of your shorts?
Or racing stripes on the outside of your carry gun?! :eek:
 
I didn't think electromagnetic emanations could penetrate into the interior of the pistol, but 1.5 Teslas is a lot of energy.

1.5 Tesla is not a measure of energy, but a field strength.

It is also a static field and does not vary with time.

The radio frequency fields applied to the patient in the MRI machine produce the time varying signals for the equipment to capture as atoms move their spin angle axis.

A static magnetic field that strong will saturate all but a truly massive amount of steel through and through.

Every part will move so as to minimize the force the field is creating in the object.

There is a famous case of a person being killed when a steel oxygen tank was pulled into the MRI and hit them in the head.

Even a steel paperclip can pick up enough speed as it is attracted to be dangerous, and why only plastic paper clips are used near the machines.

The RF fields are strong enough to cause heating of metal in tattoo inks and produce skin burns.
 
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