comn-cents
New member
What if you drop all of those. Then what would you do?
A very specific caliber debate: Larger or smaller caliber in same size gun?
- Thread starter Playboypenguin
- Start date
ice monkey
New member
Selling guns bite – I always want them back. I wouldn’t sell.
Having said that, if you were to sell the 9, and were thinking of getting a back-up to your 40 … how about a sp101 on .327’s carried in a cross draw holster? I think you could pull it off dressing as you do. The .327 is so fast; I think it would make an awesome winter gun!
Having said that, if you were to sell the 9, and were thinking of getting a back-up to your 40 … how about a sp101 on .327’s carried in a cross draw holster? I think you could pull it off dressing as you do. The .327 is so fast; I think it would make an awesome winter gun!
LightningJoe
New member
I don't think caliber matters much. One round more or less probably doesn't matter either. So, you're a free man. Carry whatever you want.
When it comes to guns and gunfighting, I think the man matters a lot more than the gun.
When it comes to guns and gunfighting, I think the man matters a lot more than the gun.
Deaf Smith
New member
Aw heck guys, I carry a Glock 26, AIWB, with a spare mag, wearing just a T-shirt and blue jeans. I'm 5' 8", 170. Yes 34 waist.
That 26 could be a 27 (.40) or 33 (.357 Sig) or maybe even the 36 (.45.)
Nice thing about the AIWB position is I can drop my keys, bend right over and pick them up. And it also has the advantages of if your grappling wth your oppenent they probably won't find the gun and try to snatch it (as they would if it was behind the hip.)
The 26, bring short, fits so well in a FIST AIWB holster that I can sit down all day with that little gun.
The 26 has a grip reduction by Bowie Tactical Concepts, NY-1 trigger and 3.5 lb connector, and Hinnie strait eight sights. Very compact and very easy to manage shooting fast, even one handed.
That 26 could be a 27 (.40) or 33 (.357 Sig) or maybe even the 36 (.45.)
Nice thing about the AIWB position is I can drop my keys, bend right over and pick them up. And it also has the advantages of if your grappling wth your oppenent they probably won't find the gun and try to snatch it (as they would if it was behind the hip.)
The 26, bring short, fits so well in a FIST AIWB holster that I can sit down all day with that little gun.
The 26 has a grip reduction by Bowie Tactical Concepts, NY-1 trigger and 3.5 lb connector, and Hinnie strait eight sights. Very compact and very easy to manage shooting fast, even one handed.
So have I. And if I'm going out for a short time where I know I can limit my activities and situations I'll throw on an untucked shirt over a full-sized gun and wear it.
But if I'm going to be out all day in a variety of situations where I may need to bend over, pick things up, sit down, stand up, etc. I can not manage to conceal anything larger than a CW9 sized gun without resorting to the use of heavy, oversized cover garments.
I stress the word conceal, because if I don't mind having the grip stick out 6" behind my back when I bend down or sit in a chair or having it be obvious that I'm carrying something large (way larger than a typical cell phone) on my belt then I could wear a full-sized gun all the time.
When I conceal I like the gun to actually be concealed, not just draped with a cover garment. And when I conceal I want the gun to stay concealed no matter what reasonable activity I engage in--I'm not satisfied if I can't do normal activities without having it be painfully clear that I'm wearing a big hunk of something on my hip.
Not sure how heavy is "heavy"
but I find that as long as an outer shirt is structured, it will work pretty well.
A chamois shirt works very nicely.
For hotter weather, a guayabara style shirt works. I also have some short-sleeved hiking shirts, in a herringbone weave, that aren't particularly heavy but that are fairly stiff.
I'm able to conceal a round-butt N-frame, a GP100, a 1911, or a P220 under those shirts, and yet they're light enough to be comfortable in Georgia in the summer. I've carried in stores, restaurants, movie theaters, etc and not one person seems to have noticed - to include the off-duty officers working at the malls and theaters.
The hiking shirts are Royal-Robbins, from REI, and they work very well.
It should be easier if I can cut 15 or 20 pounds... However, even at a bit over ideal weight, it's not hard to conceal a full-sized handgun. Note: 6', 225, large shirts, 46 jacket. Holsters are either SimplyRugged pancake or cuda, or Sam Andrews MacDaniel II or paddle. Belt is either 1.75" SimplyRugged cowhide, or 1.75" SpecOps nylon rigger belt.
Good belt plus good holster plus structured fabric = fairly easy concealment.
but I find that as long as an outer shirt is structured, it will work pretty well.
A chamois shirt works very nicely.
For hotter weather, a guayabara style shirt works. I also have some short-sleeved hiking shirts, in a herringbone weave, that aren't particularly heavy but that are fairly stiff.
I'm able to conceal a round-butt N-frame, a GP100, a 1911, or a P220 under those shirts, and yet they're light enough to be comfortable in Georgia in the summer. I've carried in stores, restaurants, movie theaters, etc and not one person seems to have noticed - to include the off-duty officers working at the malls and theaters.
The hiking shirts are Royal-Robbins, from REI, and they work very well.
It should be easier if I can cut 15 or 20 pounds... However, even at a bit over ideal weight, it's not hard to conceal a full-sized handgun. Note: 6', 225, large shirts, 46 jacket. Holsters are either SimplyRugged pancake or cuda, or Sam Andrews MacDaniel II or paddle. Belt is either 1.75" SimplyRugged cowhide, or 1.75" SpecOps nylon rigger belt.
Good belt plus good holster plus structured fabric = fairly easy concealment.
I'm with Deaf Smith. I carry a G19 or G26 AIWB also. Though I'm a bit larger: 5'11" and 220 right now.
I dress very similar to the OP, and carry the Glock, a spare mag, and my cell phone all centerline of my body. It's comfortable and concealable. I move, bend and lift quite regularly at work and at home with no trouble.
I dress very similar to the OP, and carry the Glock, a spare mag, and my cell phone all centerline of my body. It's comfortable and concealable. I move, bend and lift quite regularly at work and at home with no trouble.
I want it concealed too, and for the most part, I'm pretty anal about it, especially when I'm standing in the Chief of Police, or Township managers offices, and have cops wandering all around. I've been doing that for years so far, and have yet to even be thrown as much as an off glance, let alone be questioned as to whats under my shirt or fleece.
I also engage in strenuous physical activity all the time, often right out in the public eye too, and have yet to have a problem "concealing" a full sized handgun along with a double reload and a few other items on my belt under a basically draped cover garment in the heat of the summer. I've worked closely with some of the the same people for 20 years, and evey day we've been together, I've worn at least one gun, and they still dont have a clue.
99% of the general public is oblivious to things that dont blatantly stand out or attract their attention. I've seen and watched people walk around Walmart open carrying a large pistol on their belt, and numerous people who were standing right next to them while they browsed, were mere inches away, and were totally obvious to the fact. Even if you were to have a slight bulge under your shirt or tee shirt, chances are, your the only one worried about it. Unless your doing something to draw attention to yourself, nobody else cares.
If your dressing to attract attention, then you might want to rethink your clothing and/or holster choices. If your an overly vain person, who wants to impress everyone with your figure or physique, or other bulges, then you will have to work somethings out. But thats simply a personal problem, created by yourself.
If your dressing like most others, you wont have a problem, unless you make it one, and most of the problem is self made in your own mind anyway, just for yourself.
Personally, I dont understand letting what I wear dictate what I carry. I know once in a great while it has to be, but most of the time it doesnt. Why you wouldnt carry what you shoot the best with, and has a reasonable capacity to allow you to do so, and go from there, makes no sense at all to me. But thats me. If your that paranoid, that maybe someone will see the outline of a grip screw through your shirt when you move just this way, then maybe you shouldnt bother with the gun. Your just going to drive yourself crazy.
+1 Deaf Smith
I carry a G26 also. I am 6' 215# and wear the same kind of clothes as the op. The G26 and for that matter the G30 both conceal well and if I have to use them to defend myself, I have another gun just like it while i wait for the P to return my gun. Sorry dude I like Glocks and they work. The 9mm will do its job and its much cheaper and more plentiful that the 40. The 9mm will penetrate with the 40. It gives up some in the stopping department but I like the 9 better than the 40, That is just me though........I am not going to start a 9 vs 40 debate here. I am not a Kahr fan either so take what i said with a grain of salt.
Like the man said, all things being equal and most of the time they are not a bigger bullet will do a better job of stopping a guy.
Have a good one PBP! Carry the G30 you got for travel or get a G26/G27. Keep the nice guns for the range and the work guns for work.........
sam
I carry a G26 also. I am 6' 215# and wear the same kind of clothes as the op. The G26 and for that matter the G30 both conceal well and if I have to use them to defend myself, I have another gun just like it while i wait for the P to return my gun. Sorry dude I like Glocks and they work. The 9mm will do its job and its much cheaper and more plentiful that the 40. The 9mm will penetrate with the 40. It gives up some in the stopping department but I like the 9 better than the 40, That is just me though........I am not going to start a 9 vs 40 debate here. I am not a Kahr fan either so take what i said with a grain of salt.
Like the man said, all things being equal and most of the time they are not a bigger bullet will do a better job of stopping a guy.
Have a good one PBP! Carry the G30 you got for travel or get a G26/G27. Keep the nice guns for the range and the work guns for work.........
sam
Rich Miranda
New member
Have you ever seen his safe??
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
Yeah, i can't believe with everything in your safe you are thinking about selling one. Have you finally hit the point where not a single one more can fit?
I wouldn't sell it.
I wouldn't sell it.
.Playboypenguin
Moderator
Yeah, but those are "old guns." You don't want me to be seen carrying last years gun do you?
I say keep the 9mm. I have tried several penetration tests with different calibers and usually don't see much difference with the .40 over the 9mm. I carry my personal G23 or work P229 daily and never have a problem concealing. Most people don't even know what to look for with all of the gagdets on belts anymore. I say carry whats comfortable to you and I would always go with the higher round count.
I would say, go with the .40, if, and only if, you're able to shoot it just as well as the 9mm. It's kind of like choosing between the Kel-Tec .32 and .380. To a good number of people, the jump to .380 makes the gun too hard to shoot well, and allows for lesser accuracy and slower follow-up shots.
I have no problem concealing the largest handgun I own when I'm standing anywhere. Not even when I'm walking indoors where there's no wind.
Frankly, the still pictures "proving" that someone can conceal a full-sized handgun are very puzzling to me. Concealment when standing still or when one is able to carefully limit movement is very easy. I don't see the point of posting a still picture to demonstrate concealment because it doesn't demonstrate anything at all as far as I can tell.
Ok, here are my concealment requirements:
1. Attire must be within the norm for the area/season/situation. No heavy cover garments/fleeces/etc. in the summertime. In fact, there are some situations where even an untucked shirt is not an option--that complicates things a bit more.
Yes, heavy cover garments help a LOT in terms of concealment but if you don't get committed first you'll have a heat stroke. Besides, even if I escape those two fates I'm not interested in being bathed in sweat everywhere I go in order to carry something a few inches & oz heavier than what I already do carry.
2. I spend a good deal of time indoors (as most people do) which means that if I'm wearing a heavy cover garment in the winter it needs to be removable when I go indoors. So even in winter there's not really a huge difference in what I can wear. Yes, having a coat on outside makes concealment easier OUTSIDE, but I don't wear my coat inside so it doesn't help much in that situation.
3. No heroic measures must be required to keep the gun from printing or otherwise becoming obvious during normal activities.
Printing is when it is very obvious that what I'm wearing is significantly larger than a typical cellphone/pager/blackberry/insulin pump/etc. As one gunwriter said in an article years ago--sorry for the paraphrase--"Yeah, you can't tell he's wearing a gun, it just looks like he's got a can of pork & beans in his pocket".
An example of becoming obvious is when you sit down in a chair and make a banging sound because there's no way to sit normally without the grip hitting the chair. That's not concealment as far as I'm concerned.
Normal activities mean doing things like sitting normally in a typical chair/bending down to pick up things that you've dropped on the floor/walking across the parking lot in a light wind/etc. If the grip sticks through the slats in the chair I'm sitting in or if there's no way to keep the gun from being painfully obvious in the wind or when I'm bending over to pick something up then it's not concealed.
An example of becoming obvious is when you sit down in a chair and make a banging sound because there's no way to sit normally without the grip hitting the chair. That's not concealment as far as I'm concerned.
Normal activities mean doing things like sitting normally in a typical chair/bending down to pick up things that you've dropped on the floor/walking across the parking lot in a light wind/etc. If the grip sticks through the slats in the chair I'm sitting in or if there's no way to keep the gun from being painfully obvious in the wind or when I'm bending over to pick something up then it's not concealed.
4. The gun must be as accessible as the framework above allows.
The bottom line is that the gun exists to serve me. It's not the other way around.
Absolutely. Why would you wear something that stood out, and why would you wear something that wasnt seasonal? I wear what I normally wear for work (they buy it and it has their name on it), or what I normally wear outside work. Nothing "heavy" or out of line. Cooler weather, sweatshirt or a fleece.
As far as bathed in sweat goes, yep, there are many times I am, but so is everyone else I'm working with or around, so its the norm for me. Sweat or not, I'm still wearing a shirt that is the same weight as the one you probably wear in the summer. You dont get heat stroke unless your a knuckle head and dont know better. If you work where we do and what we get into, you'd understand the long sleeves in summer too.
I'm just the opposite, but I do spend some time indoors, and if your accustomed to being outdoors, year round, you know to layers, and that solves the indoors issue for me. In winter or cooler weather, I dont wear one heavy coat, so when my coat or anorak comes off, I always still have a light layer or two on underneath.
For times where I have to wear a tucked in shirt, I wear one of Kramers Confidant undershirt holsters. You can still easily wear a full size pistol on one side, and a double reload on the other if you want, or you can carry two smaller pistols, and all this under a full cut dress shirt. Its a lot easier and more secure than a tuckable IWB, especially if your paranoid about printing.
My normal "activities" seem to be quite a bit different than yours. Yours seem to be a lot more sedate. Normal activities for me include jumping in and out of ditches, climbing in and out of structures and equipment, etc, and often, right out in public with a lot of people around very close by. Been doing this for a long time now, and have yet to have one word said about whats under my shirt. If you go about your business as you normally do, and act like you normally do, as though you werent carrying anything, barring some catastrophic failure on your part, the chances anyone is paying attention, let alone notice, are about nil. If your paranoid, and constantly patting yourself down, or any of the other 'give aways" that many do, especially newcomers to carrying, then you might draw some attention from those looking for that behavior.
If you dont know how to sit in a hard backed chair while wearing a gun, or any of the other little things that we have to deal with on a minute by minute basis, then thats strictly your problem, and has nothing to do with what your wearing. Once you've been doing it long enough, you dont even consciously think about any of it, what needs done gets done.
Its a complimentary existence. You both serve each other.
Hey, if your uncomfortable carrying a full size gun dont. Its a free world. I was just pointing out, its not a big deal, if you want to, and it can be done in the real world on a full time, daily basis, without making a compromise. If you cant, and I dont understand why you cant, but, whatever, then carry what you feel comfortable with. I'm comfortable with mine, and its been working well for me for a long time.
Again, this gets back to who is serving who. The gun is there to serve me. I'm not there to serve it on a "minute by minute basis". Sure, it's possible to sit in a hard back or slat back chair without bumping it with a gun, but the larger the gun (longer the grip) is the harder it is. And if you have to stay seated in it for a long time it's going to be a pain not being able to lean back or having to sit sideways to keep the grip from bumping the back or sticking through the slats.
Your description of your activities puts things in perspective. If you can wear a heavy cover garment (like the one in your picture) all the time and don't have to do much sitting other than in your vehicle where no one can see you then you have a lot more latitude in what you can conceal.
I'm not uncomfortable carrying a full-sized gun, I just can't conceal one except in certain controlled circumstances.
What is Pee Wee Herman doing on your TV?
The Hornady Critical defense ammo will alieviate that 9mm from clogging in heavy clothes. But, if you feel better with the .40? That will work fine as well.
I think you're splitting hairs here and over analyzing the difference between your two choices you mention (I know you have more). Typical Mental Health professional trying to perfectly analyze the potentional problems and provide the best solutions. During a gun fight there is no perfect solution, other than NOT being there!
You and I both know that tactics/people win the proverbial gun fight and NOT the equipment. You're an experienced shooter and you know that the difference between a PM9 and PM40 is minutiae, to how the weapon is employed and by whom.
Good conversation though.
The Hornady Critical defense ammo will alieviate that 9mm from clogging in heavy clothes. But, if you feel better with the .40? That will work fine as well.
I think you're splitting hairs here and over analyzing the difference between your two choices you mention (I know you have more). Typical Mental Health professional trying to perfectly analyze the potentional problems and provide the best solutions. During a gun fight there is no perfect solution, other than NOT being there!
You and I both know that tactics/people win the proverbial gun fight and NOT the equipment. You're an experienced shooter and you know that the difference between a PM9 and PM40 is minutiae, to how the weapon is employed and by whom.Good conversation though.
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