A shotgun for my wife!

[zippy13]

12 gauge shells are typically more powerful.

A load of equal weight and equal velocity will impart the same amount of force, regardless of whether it is a 12 or 20

Oneounce, my friend, I'm not sure where you're going with this. Let's see if we're of like minds, we aren't in some areas. I gotta agree with, "12 gauge shells are typically more powerful" if it means 12-ga loads typically deliver more shot than 20-ga loads. However, I suspect you're thinking that two identical loads: say a 12-ga 1-oz load, at 1200-fps has the same muzzle energy as a 20-ga 1-oz load, at 1200-fps. This is also true.

But, from our experience, we know shooting a 20-ga 1-oz packs more recoil than a 12-ga shooting the same 1-oz load. Why? The obvious answer is the 20-ga gun is typically lighter than a 12-ga gun. That explains some of it. But, I shoot tubed guns, and the weights are the same, but the 20-ga still has more recoil than the 12-ga equivalent load, in the same gun. I suspect it's due to the higher pressure in the 20-ga barrel.

To deliver a load of equal weight and velocity: If F is the force required to get the load up to speed, and F = P x A, as A (area, controlled by the bore) decreases, then P (pressure) must increase. A typical 12-ga has a bore cross section of 1.14 sq.in. and a 20-ga 0.97 sq.in. So, the 20-ga pressure has to be around 18% higher than the 12-ga to shoot an equivalent load. If you want to take the example to an extreme, consider the pressure (and recoil) if you tried to shoot a 1-oz bullet at 1,200-fps from a .30 caliber rifle -- Yikes!

Some of you are thinking, "No way, Zippy's crazy, I've shot 20 and 12-ga guns and the 20-ga doesn't recoil more." Well, you've probably shot standard loads: A typical typical 12-ga 1 1/8-oz has about 29% more shot muzzle energy than a 7/8-oz 20-ga load. This greatly eclipses the recoil difference due to different internal pressures. Try a 12 and a 20 with equivalent loads and your thinking may be changed.

The same applies to other bores. If your are thinking of shooting extra heavy 12-ga loads, you might want to think of getting a 10-ga with an equivalent load; but, the area and pressure differences aren't as significant as with the 20 and 12-ga.

 

[Bella]

zippy

If you're wife wants to try waterfowl, then a 20-ga is really on the "too light" side.

I shot five ducks last week with my 20 gauge. They seemed pretty dead to me. By the, one shot each, and they were dead on impact with the ground.

 

[zippy13]

Zippy

If you're wife wants to try waterfowl, then a 20-ga is really on the "too light" side.

I shot five ducks last week with my 20 gauge. They seemed pretty dead to me. By the, one shot each, and they were dead on impact with the ground.

The OP mentioned "waterfowl" and that's the term I used. I've seen smaller ducks close enough that I'd try a 28-ga on them without reservation; but, that doesn't mean I'd give the 28-ga an unqualified recommendation for waterfowl. Who knows, the OP's wife may have high honkers in mind. IMHO, I don't think many shooters, given the choice, have a 20-ga as their go-to goose gun.

Also, most likely you're a better shot that the OP's wife. Perhaps, eventually she'll be comfortable shooting ducks with a 20-ga. In an ideal world, we'd all have several guns in each gauge. In the mean time, I suggest the versatile 12-ga as a first gun. Bella, were you using a 20-ga by choice or chance?

 

[roy reali]

re:zippy13

I don't think many shooters, given the choice, have a 20-ga as their go-to goose gun.

My cousin's daughter is an avid waterfowler. She is a petite gal, I doubt she weighs 90 pounds wet. Twelve gauges, autos included, are too much for her. She uses a 20 gauge by choice. Next time she shows me her dead geese, I'll photograph them and post them.

 

[zippy13]

re: Roy

What's your point, Roy? Your 90-pound cousin's daughter's goose gun of choice being a 20-ga doesn't alter my, "I don't think many shooters, given the choice, have a 20-ga as their go-to goose gun." Obviously, she's not physically a typical goose hunter and is excluded from my "many shooters" -- it's because of special cases, like hers, that I purposefully didn't say "all" shooters -- I anticipated exceptions, else awaken the trolls. Be my guest and post pics of geese killed by a 90-pound, 20-ga shooter, and I'll continue to recommend the versatile 12-ga as a first gun.

 

[oneounceload]

Seems funny to me Roy, that the 3-4 women I shoot with, are in their 60-70's, and they all shoot 12 gauges weighing between 8.25 and 9.25 pounds with no issues. These women range from 4'10" to 5' 4" and weight is commensurate.....yet these social-security collecting senior citizens have no issues handling them big bad 12 gauge guns.......sounds like your cousin's daughter needs to hit the gym, because if a 70 year old tiny woman can handle a 12, than anyone can.....even young kids.....with the proper loads and a gun that fits

 

[lizziedog1]

I too have killed many geese with a 20 gauge. Last time I went goose hunting I was with a party of five hunters. I never missed one, three shots, three birds. The 12 users missed more often then I hit. Their geese flew away very alive. My geese, shot with a 20 gauge, ended up very dead.

 

[roy reali]

reneounceload

sounds like your cousin's daughter needs to hit the gym,

When she was eleven, she was in serious automoblie accident. Her back had to be fused as it was broken in several places. She is lucky to walk. She can't handle a 12 because of recoil issues. The accident also affected her growth.

You are bright, aren't you?

 

[zippy13]

re: lizziedog 1

My geese, shot with a 20 gauge, ended up very dead.

"Very dead" as opposed to what... "just barely dead"?

Are you saying your performance was better because you were using a 20-ga, or because you're a better shot, or just taking an opportunity to brag-up your goose getting prowess? I'm sure we can find someone, somewhere, who got a 12-foot alligator with a .22LR while others with high-power rifles failed; but, what would it prove?

Just out of curiosity, I checked Federal's shotshell site, and selected "medium and large geese" from their bot's menu. Federal lists three 10-ga loads, fifteen 12-ga loads, and one 20-ga load. Winchester's site recommended goose loads: four in 10-ga, fourteen in 12-ga and one in 20-ga. Anyone really surprised that I'll continue to recommend the versatile 12-ga as a first gun? Of course, there are always special cases like Roy's cousin's daughter's tragic experience -- our hopes and prayers go out to her.

 

[the blur]

I have a bad neck and bad back, and got tired of the people responding to my request for light recoil hunting ammo; with totally ridiculous comments.

Let us know what you find out.
I too am looking for a low recoiling auto loader.
and every manufacturer claims to be the lowest.

 

[zippy13]

the blur,
You can only do so much with light loads and low recoiling auto loaders -- the laws of physics can only be pushed so far. Some years ago I went through the recoil reduction methods available: slower burning powders, premium recoil pads, added gun weight, mercury canisters, ported barrels, custom fitted stocks, shirts with sewn in pads, over-bored barrels, and longer forcing cones. They all helped a little; but, if you want a quantum reduction in kick, consider an air unit. It buffers the recoil like no other device I've tried. In my Skeet gun, I have a telescoping JS Air Cushion conversion, and in my Trap gun the less expensive sliding ShockMaster. Both units use a G-squared air unit.

There's an air port in the butt pad -- you add/remove pressure as you wish. The lower the pressure, the less kick you feel. Shooting 4-gauge Skeet, I can change pressure so the recoil from each gauge is about the same. I've never known anyone with either of the systems who wasn't satisfied. There are other similar ones available, but I selected those that are done in my area.

 

[.300 Weatherby Mag]

20 gauge..

It's important to find a gun that she's comfortable with.. The 12 gauge recommendation is stupid in most causes, unless your shooting waterfowl a 12 is not needed.. I really don't care about the arguement about the lack of versatility of a 20.. My goal is to make women want to come back rather than to take a beating from a 12 gauge the first time out never to return to the shooting sports again..

 

[lefteyedom]

Soap box warning

Tis a rare woman that sticks with shotguns very long, seriously.

This mind set is the very reason there are not more females in the shooting sports.

How many women have had their first shotgun experience with a single shot 12 gauge? Or worse yet a double barrel 12 gauge (go on honey pull both triggers!)

I am all for pink rifles or hell even Hello Kitty stickers, if it make a girl proud to have her OWN gun. Nothing is better than a kid learning that they are wanted and welcome in their parents sport. Who is not proud when a kid gets a big shot of self confidence because they hit a target with their gun.

 

[Snakedriver]

My wife is a dead shot with her 20 ga. Mossberg 500 with 28" barrel using a imp. mod. choke. That thing seems to reach out and get the quail and doves when the 12's can't seem to get there.

 

[oneounceload]

You are bright, aren't you?

Yes, I am Roy - perhaps you should re-read my entire post. My first wife was worse off than yours and she had to work out to be able to lift herself from her wheelchair.

HEAVY gun plus LIGHT load equal LOW recoil; (since you said she couldn't handle recoil)

 

[Jim Watson]

A lady here went the full route, shooting everything available, handling everything in the stores. She made her own choice and paid her own money, ending up with a Benelli Ultra Light 6 lb 12 gauge. Everybody said its light weight and inertia action would kick her silly. All I saw was a big pleased grin when I took her to the trap and skeet club to practice, and a phone picture of her with her pheasants when she went hunting with it.

 

[oneounceload]

A lady here went the full route, shooting everything available, handling everything in the stores. She made her own choice and paid her own money, ending up with a Benelli Ultra Light 6 lb 12 gauge. Everybody said its light weight and inertia action would kick her silly. All I saw was a big pleased grin when I took her to the trap and skeet club to practice, and a phone picture of her with her pheasants when she went hunting with it.

AWESOME............must fit her very well.glad she is enjoying it

 

[zippy13]

The 12 gauge recommendation is stupid in most causes, unless your shooting waterfowl a 12 is not needed.. I really don't care about the arguement about the lack of versatility of a 20.. My goal is to make women want to come back rather than to take a beating from a 12 gauge the first time out never to return to the shooting sports again.

None of us wants to duplicate the idiots we see all too frequently on youtube. You know the type, they give some young woman a light 12-ga pump that doesn't fit her, don't instruct her how to mount the gun, drop a boomer in the chamber and roll camera. The poor girl shoots one round and is beat by the gun, and a bloody facial injury isn't uncommon. Needless to say, she isn't anxious to fire another round and is probably wondering why she's hanging around with a bunch of losers in the first place.

It seems .300 W.M. would paint all ladies' introduction to shooting with a 12-ga with the same broad brush. If you're really concerned that a 12-ga will scare her off, then why suggest a 20-ga? As I pointed out earlier, a 12-ga can be loaded to kick less than a 20-ga. Why not start he off with a .410-bore? Because, with a .410 she probably won't hit many targets, and may not return because of frustration.

Let's assume you introduce a lady to the shooting sports with a 20-ga and she really enjoys the experience. And, following your advice, she purchases a 20-ga sporting gun. She enjoys shooting so much that she starts entering club shoots. She soon notices the other ladies, shooting 12-ga guns, are bettering her scores. The other ladies explain that, of course, their scores are higher, they are throwing more than an extra 1 1/2-lb of lead every 100-targets. What do you say when she asks you why you recommended a gun that would put her at a handicap? .300 W.M. may not agree with my argument that the versatility of the loads available for the 12-ga make it the ideal first gun, but she may.

 

[oneounceload]

If you're really concerned that a 12-ga will scare her off, then why suggest a 20-ga?

To add to that, then get her a nice .22 to introduce her to shooting and work up from there........a 12 is the most versatile and the easiest to get LOW-recoil ammunition for her to shoot. Even reloading, I am reloading 12 and 20 to 28 gauge levels - 3/4 oz. The 12 has less actual AND perceived recoil then the 20 because the gun is heavier, and in my wife's situation, she's shooting a semi gas gun....(here's a hint Roy - the A400 weighs what a 20 does, but shooting 3/4 oz loads, has less recoil than the 20).....

 

[.300 Weatherby Mag]

Zippy,

If she's shooting that much and comes to enjoy it, she can buy a 12 gauge after she gets to the point that the 20 becomes a handicap.. Another issue, that seems to be neglected... Women that I've taught even when given the option don't want to mess with the heft of something like an 1100.. Yes you can handload a 12 down, but most people just getting into the sport don't have that option availaible to them...

To Zippy and OneOunce,

I believe the tone of my first post came off as painting a broad stroke with 12gauges.. Probably shouldn't comment on this stuff after a bad day... I guess my problem is that I see far more stupid people trying to introduce women to the sport than the other way around..