A scenario ... because EVERYONE LOVES a scenario ...

I'm an idiot

I don't leave my wife. Period. Now, granted, my wife and I talk about stuff like this, and "what if" all day long. But I don't leave her behind. Flame away, it's my call anyway.
 
That's cool. I admire that (when you're on your own). But you got a kid strapped into the back seat. You're willing to risk his/her life for your principals? The problem with that attitude is it's not just about YOUR life.
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Point well taken. OK -- I probably wouldn't go walking in downtown Denver at 2:00 a.m. with my toddler. Hopefully she'd be asleep anyway. I will keep going to convenience stores, though -- at least depending on the part of town I'm in. Especially if there are 2 adults and one is staying in the van with her.

You are right -- and I DO keep it in mind when I have an infant in my charge.

Did you want to drive around to the side of the building, get OUT of the car, lock the car, throw the keys somewhere, and watch the situation, away from your car?? You can't just lock the car up and leave the baby by herself!! I *believe* (sarcasm detected?) that's against the law! And especially, during an armed robbery situation. Isn't that something like "Endangering the welfare of a minor" or "Reckless Endangerment" or something? ... if anything happened to that child while it was by itself locked in the car, you'd never forgive yourself.
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Another point well taken. For the particular 7-11 I was at, the vehicle would be pretty safe around the corner. Again, it's because I'm thinking of a very specific situation and building. Many stand alone convenience stores would be different, but this is at the end of a mini-mall. I don't want to do a map of the area, but I could park around the corner and not be in danger of the getaway car slamming into my vehicle.

And if they're going to spray the vehicles in the area with gunfire, better that I'm out of the vehicle where I can shoot back vs. locked inside.

In terms of leaving the child alone ... I don't think it would legally be reckless endangerment to leave your child alone momentarily to protect the life of another human being. There's a little thing called "lesser of two evils" AND common sense. I certainly wouldn't be concerned about that.

As to whether it makes sense to do so ... again, I'm thinking of a very particular building and surroundings. If I truly thought the SHTF and my wife had a high likely hood of being killed AND wasn't already dead, I still might do it. Depends a lot on the situation. The only reason I'm tossing the keys in a non obvious place is if things go bad I don't want anyone pulling the keys off me to use my car as a getaway vehicle.

Probably wouldn't intercede in the situation I described, though, because 2 gunmen are just too much.
 
This is a typical bad situation that will elicit all kinds of commando crap about 'tactical' movement and efficiently taking down the BGs.

The only reasonable option is to get away with the kid and call the cops. You don't keep the kid in the range of rounds. Duh - anybody not get that?
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So taking cover and shooting both BG's in the eye is not a feasible solution? What about taking off in your car, squalling the tires, and shooting out of the window?
 
Meyer:

Look, I'm not interested in another PI55ing contest with you. To clarify my point, I placed the priorities in order.

1) protect the child. obviously it depends on the lot and adjacent lots, but i would park far enough away to move the vehicle out of any immediate danger from stray gunfire while i can still observe.

2) i said to call the police and gather info

3) IF, and that's a big IF, i felt I could tackle the situation without endangerign my child, i would do so.

I would at least give it some effort. A couple of clear aimed shots on the BG as he's exiting the store at least. Maybe even lucky enough to get a few clear shots at him through the window if the background allows.

It's extremely unlikely that something bad will happen to my baby in a locked car in the time I'm gone, particularly because LEO will be there momentarily. Conversely, it's extremely likely that there is a BG waving a gun in my wife's face and she could get killed in the blink of an eye. I would want to be there to intervene if given the chance or to kill that SOB the moment I get a clear shot.

I live by the "commando" policy of "leave no (wo)man behind" particularly if she's my flipping wife!

Seriously, how could you sleep at night tearing off in your car, saving your own neck, leaving your wife behind.... "whew sally, that was a close one. looks like it's a bad night for mommy. let's go get some icecream...." and later when sally is older... "where's mommy?" "well sweetheart, we were at a store one day and a bad guy came into the store with a gun, so daddy took you and high-tailed it outta there."
 
So taking cover and shooting both BG's in the eye is not a feasible solution? What about taking off in your car, squalling the tires, and shooting out of the window?
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Not with my kid in the line of fire. My wife would also be in there, opening fire is a great way of getting her shot.

A couple scenarios could occur:

1)You shoot the one in the car, his buddy gets freaked out he pops your wife and the cashier, grabs what money he can and runs out the back door. Cops never find him.

2) You shoot at the guy in the car, glass changes the flightpath of the bullet and you miss. He pulls up a shotty and rakes your car with your kid in it, with buckshot, possibly killing your kid.

3) You pop the driver, his partner happens to be deaf and has no idea what happened and you put one through his head.

4) You pop the driver, the scout they have inside sees it, pops your wife and he and the original guy kill everyone. You just got 7 people not including yourself killed.

5) They post on TFL and are more tactically minded then you. There is a sniper on top of the Baskin Robbins across the street 75 yards away. Easy shot. You ninja roll out of the car then your brains get sprayed onto your left rear fender. Your kid is now an orphan.

6) Their gun is empty, he gets 237.51 from the register and a carton of smokes, they drive off. Your wife gets back in the car kisses your baby and on the way home you see the cops pull the guys over and arrest them.

7) The gun is loaded, they want money not a blood bath. Everyone plays it cool and you get to take your wife home sans body bag. That night she turns on some Barry White and thanks you for not getting her killed. 9 months later you have two toddlers to worry about and shes still walkin' funny.
 
Not with my kid in the line of fire. My wife would also be in there, opening fire is a great way of getting her shot.
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Um yeah, I was kidding. Next time I'll use these tactical ninja throwing stars => ***
 
Leadcounsel - it's your baby and Darwin as far as I'm concerned.

Tactically move all you want.

If I were in that situation, I would want my spouse to save the baby and leave me to my own devices. If I found out that my spouse left the baby to 'tactically' save me with ninja skills - I would think said spouse was an idiot as the spouse increase the probability of the baby getting hurt and/or being an orphan.

There are only doctrines that make sense as to the best final outcome. Leaving no women behind - blah, blah - tough guy bullcrap. You do what you need to do for the best outcome.

Oh, far enough away to observe but be out of danger from gunfire. That's tactically sound, if you are in visual view of the store, you are in risk of a round. Hey, wrap the baby in your vest.
 
Despite the slight tarnish in some of the replies, I think his scenerio was wise -excluding the tossing of the car keys.

If anything I would:

Place car in reverse, move a few hundred yards down the street.
Put on hazards, start dialing 911 as I walked back towards the store.
Conceal cover behind the passenger with a bead on the inside man.
He takes a bead on her, he gets my beads.
 
Wouldn't the starting of your car/truck/van and then moving off, even slowly, be enough to gain the attention of the lookout and then draw attention to yourself?

That doing so my put you and your child in danger if they get the wrong idea?

Just putting in another aspect to the scenerio, not trying to get flamed or such here.

Wayne
 
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Decided to talk to young moms who are aware of my gun interests and also pretty sensible warrior types. Uniform opinion is to get the baby out of Dodge, out of the line of fire, never leave baby and call the cops.

No tactical movement here - kid is saved first. They will handle their end as best they can.

Also, some opinion that a good mom would be breast feeding the kid anyway, which obviously depends on the age of the kid.

A basic principle of this which many 'tactical' movers seem not to understand is that if you can see the muzzle of the gun, the muzzle of the gun sees you and baby.
 
I would get the hell out of the situation with the kid if at all possible, and would EXPECT my wife to do the same if it were me in that store. The safety of the child comes first. Any responsible parent will understand that. Anything else about the scenario is up in the air. No idea what can or will happen, nor do I care, UNTIL kid is safe. Period.
 
My question is should wife take the perk's wallet after she pulled out her CCW and put six in the back of perks head. IF you taught her well Obewon. Guy in car frealks out and speeds away after seeing his bud's head do a "Marvin".

I mean if YOU are a regular here you probably didn't marry a vegetarian, right?
 
More moms talked to with the following points:

1. Mom is idiot to go to a convenience store at night.

2. Should have sent in dad for milk. Leave the jerk, there.

All say - Dad should flee out of possible range. No way you leave baby alone in the car.

Tactical movement be damned - it's time to boogie, Daddy!
 
The reason the woman went for milk is cuz she had a $100 and the guy behind the counter did not accept it last time the guy went in.
 
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In this situation I would be glad my wife didn't have a gun because it would most likely get her killed. She would attempt to draw on a person who is 1) already pointing a gun at her and 2)probably a lot more experienced with a gun than the average house wife. If she was properly trained, which most women aren't, then she could possibly get a shot off if he wasn't looking.
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Yeah, because obviously if your wife had gone to the trouble of purchasing a firearm for herself, she would never bother learning to shoot, or taking a class, or anything like that. She would never think about any of this stuff. Since most women are unarmed and stupid about guns, it's a good thing yours is too.

Did you really mean to say that?

(Me? I'd have been inside, and gotten ticked with my husband if he didn't drive away to protect the kid and call 911 while he was doing it. I wouldn't draw against a drawn gun; instead I'd act submissive, wait for the inevitable "in your face" intimidating gun-wave thing that 99% of videotaped convenience store robbers do, and take the idiot's gun away when he tried it on me. If I die, I'll die on my feet rather than my knees.)

pax
 
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