A question to the members

To be honest, I see more 1A problems then 2A in the bill. A fee to the AG for promoting a gun show. Sure it's philospohically similar to a parade license etc., but it's open to abuse.

Requiring an exhibitor that isn't going to sell to register, prove identity and so on...


I'd also like to know what "any part of the transaction" is. Does the guy who's window shopping, then buys a month later..
 
Would you support legislation that requires all firearms transactions to go through a FFL?
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Yes, but only for nominal fee and with no registration.

Where have all the illegal guns in the hands of criminals come from?
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The answers are as varied as "where do all the crimnals come from?"

What percentage of guns have been stolen from homes or gun shops?
What percentage have been bought and sold over and over again without the paper trail?
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No one keeps track of this type information and doing so would be futile.
 
Would you support legislation that requires all firearms transactions to go through a FFL?
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No, why would I? Why does the government need to approve my use of my constitutional rights? It is not like my purchases are some march downtown some major city that requires blocking off streets and crowd controls...

Where have all the illegal guns in the hands of criminals come from??
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Not really my concern, I am not a law enforcement officer... I obey the laws and only concern myself with staying within the law... My off the cuff, un-researched guess would be theft from homes and cars...


What percentage of guns have been stolen from homes or gun shops???
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I would suggest that gun shops probably have less theft than you might think because hopefully the owner has take steps to reduce the risk... Bars on windows, cameras, alarm systems and open and concealed carry by employees. Still the root cause is a crime has been committed in the theft, not in the possession of the homeowner or business owner... Murders been outlawed for a long time, laws may reduce it to some degree but never end it, gun theft is much the same.

What percentage have been bought and sold over and over again without the paper trail?
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I think the better question is how do you propose to make any criminal follow the paper process you propose? By definition they wont.. Not being sarcastic but you will not modify criminal activity with a paper trail...

I applaud your concern for your fellow human beings but we already have too many freedom killing anti gun laws, rules and regulations... Enough is enough... We have to be able to expect adults to act as adults and when they break the law they need to be held to the punishments given... No one wants to pay for all the prisons and jails and no one want to exact the classical punishment of death for a felony... We have all these wants and because we as a people cant pull our britches up like big boys and girls and pay for and demand the appropriate punishments....

If our prisons were pure punishment, cold, hard work environments, we'd have a lot less repeat offenders... It is our very kindness to those that do us the most wrong as a society that leads to much of our repeat crime and our inability to deal with repeaters effectively.

If you want the source of all this crime, its ourselves in not exacting high tolls on those who commit the crimes and the glorification of crimes by our society. We don't need gun control, we need people to enforce the standards.
 
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I would suggest that gun shops probably have less theft than you might think because hopefully the owner has take steps to reduce the risk... Bars on windows, cameras, alarm systems and open and concealed carry by employees. Still the root cause is a crime has been committed in the theft, not in the possession of the homeowner or business owner... Murders been outlawed for a long time, laws may reduce it to some degree but never end it, gun theft is much the same.
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From a PBS news article of unknown reliability however it's not slanted in scope that I can tell.

The report goes on to state that "over-the-counter purchases are not the only means by which guns reach the illegal market from FFLs" and reveals that 23,775 guns have been reported lost, missing or stolen from FFLs since September 13, 1994, when a new law took effect requiring dealers to report gun thefts within 48 hours. This makes the theft of 6,000 guns reported in the CIR/Frontline show "Hot Guns" only 25% of all cases reported to ATF in the past two and one-half years.
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This study should go a long way towards answering some of that question. Basically Gun Shop and private home thefts aren't the most frequent way criminals get guns, but it's not a long shot for them either.. especially when they can just Steal from the LEO's
 
Would you support legislation that requires all firearms transactions to go through a FFL?
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Sure, I'll concede that. Now here's what we want. National reciprocity with no exceptions (i.e. I want to be able to carry everywhere, NYC, Chicago, L.A., the works), and I want NFA gone, kaput. No registration of machine guns, SBRs, suppressors, etc. Treat them as any other firearm.

We've given enough. If they want this, let them give us something.
 
Would you support legislation that requires all firearms transactions to go through a FFL?
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No.

I will support no further expansion of Federal powers. None.

I am so NOT interested in what the .gov wants to DO. Tell me about what it that they are UNDOING.
 
Absolutely NOT! It serves no function except to impede the lawful tranfer of firearms and increase the cost. Another Jim Crow firearms suggestion.

Criminals do not care what the law is...if they cannot obtain what they want legally, they will obtain them illegally...the only people you will burden with such a law is those that would follow the law.
 
No, it is completely unnecessary...like I said, if a criminal wants a gun, he will get a gun...illegally is necessary.

The check is not "free", even if they do not charge for it..
 
To make all the background checks free would require a rewrite of the brady bill to disallow states acting as a middleman, or changes to prohibit states from charging while they act as middleman, and subsequently a rewrite of those states laws to keep up with the change. The charges only come into play when the state acts as a middleman(although not all states that middleman charge) instead of allowing FFLs to contact NICS directly.

And no I still would not support it.
 
DonP

Would you support legislation that requires all firearms transactions to go through a FFL?
My reason for supporting this is as follows,
Where have all the illegal guns in the hands of criminals come from?
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I do not support any new laws, because the anti-gun zealots will never stop. Some feel that if we give in on this or that, then it will end. It will not end. The anti-gunners would only consider it a small victory in an ongoing war to disarm every American citizen.

I was a parole officer for 30 years. Every criminal I ever dealt with, who used or possessed a firearm, had either stolen it, or purchased it from another criminal who had stolen it. They didn't go to gun shows or buy them at their LGS. Newsflash...criminals don't obey laws. They don't care what new laws Joe Biden, Gov. Cuomo or Mayor Bloomberg may come up with. If every gun in America is banned and confiscated, there will simply be a lucrative black market of firearms sales. Remember Prohibition anyone? Criminals will be heavily armed and law abiding citizens will be stripped of their ability to defend themselves.
 
If all NICS checks were made free, and no state could tax/charge it, would people be more willing to make them mandatory?
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TANSTAAFL.

Anything new the .gov does is going to be added to the debt our kids will have to pay back..... provided this whole financial house of cards does not come tumbling down ......
 
Where have all the illegal guns in the hands of criminals come from?
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Most are stolen from individuals, or acquired through straw purchases. Neither of those things are stopped by the NICS system.

NICS was an unpleasant compromise we accepted back in the 1990's, and I see absolutely no reason to expand its reach. Ask someone who's been wrongfully denied what the appeal process is like.

Oh, and as far as guns "stolen" from FFL's: most of those are book-keeping errors, sometimes on the dealer's side, sometimes on the distributor's side. Any time there's some question as to acquisition/disposition and a trace request is issued, the gun is a crime gun. There is no other classification in the system.
 
If I currently own a gun I bought from someone down the street, the Feds don't know about it. Now if mandatory NICS check is required and I sell my gun to another person on the next block, how will the Feds know? In order for it to work, all guns would have to be registered in advance so they would know what you owned when the law went into effect.

Rick
 
Don P said:
Where have all the illegal guns in the hands of criminals come from?
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Either from FFLs through straw purchases, or stolen from lawful owners.

Very VERY few are purchased legally through face-to-face transactions (unless you count street-corner sales where a gun that's already "hot" gets bartered for a quantity of some regulated chemical compound).
 
No Way.

Over a period when the number of guns have increased in the US, the number of violent crimes was halved.

None of these 'reasonable controls' are about being reasonable; they are about control.

Those who push the un-Constitutional anti 2A agenda want to disarm the American people. Theyd prefer to do it quickly, but use the strategy of doing it slowly because it works.

They are the same tactics used by Fabian Socialists, whose shield depicts a wolf in sheeps clothing.
 
I'm not in favor of any new laws regarding guns, because they are useless and uninforceable ... hicap mag bans, AWB, all transfers through FFLs; everything requires the cooperation of law-abiding citizens ... well, that's me, but in this case, not so much ... I read somewhere that there are some 20,000 laws regulating firearms on the books in this country .. that seems like plenty, how about enforcing them?
 
I would if worded right . Here is one of many issues I have with this
`Sec. 932. Regulation of firearms transfers at gun shows

`(a) Registration of Gun Show Promoters- It shall be unlawful for any person to organize, plan, promote, or operate a gun show unless that person--
`(1) registers with the Attorney General in accordance with regulations promulgated by the Attorney General; and
`(2) pays a registration fee, in an amount determined by the Attorney General.
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This would seem to be a way to regulate the gun shows out of existence .

Will the AG be able to refuse registration ?

The AG can make the registration cost so high that no one would be able to afford the registration .

In short I like the idea of back ground checks but I can see many ways for them to be abused .
 
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