A gun for the wife

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Removing the empty magazine will make it possible to get the gun out of slide lock, yes.

Have her practice that skill several times (over several sessions so she doesn't experience failure related to wearing her hands out).

After she has the skill down pat, then have her do the same thing with a full magazine.

Never bother trying to lower the slide with an empty mag in place. It's not worth the effort it's taking her.

pax
 
Pax said:
Removing the empty magazine will make it possible to get the gun out of slide lock, yes.

Have her practice that skill several times (over several sessions so she doesn't experience failure related to wearing her hands out).

After she has the skill down pat, then have her do the same thing with a full magazine.

Never bother trying to lower the slide with an empty mag in place. It's not worth the effort it's taking her.

pax
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Kathy is absolutely correct. I have a couple of Sig's in my mix of guns. (I am also a female) I just sat here and unloaded my carry gun and did exactly what she is suggesting and removing the empty mag does make the gun come out of slide lock without needing to use the release button. Ironically enough, I never thought of that, because I never use the slide release to begin with (except when field stripping). To me it is a waste of time during the precious reloading process. I typically have already got my mag dropped and another one fed before my first one is empty.

She definitely sounds like she needs a different gun. I rarely suggest a particular gun for anyone, but I would try and get a Sig p238 in her hands. I have never been a fan of the 9mm short's (aka .380) but this one is a dream. I've been carrying it since I started wearing lighter weight summer clothing and it's easy to conceal and accuracy, smooth shooting, etc is there. I also have the p938. Little bit more snappy due to size and 9mm, but still ok. Then, I just got rid of a Sig Ultra Compact 1911 3.3". But it was another easy slide to manipulate. It just wore me out after shooting it after a while.

As for gun shops... There aren't enough hours in a day or days in a week for me to get tired of prowling around in a gun shop... Forget shopping malls..
 
Or she could try something that's not a Sig.

It's been awhile, but I have a hazy memory of Sigs with heavy slides. I distinctly remember their insane DA trigger, which, by some unfathomable reason happens to be unreachable for those of us with short fingers.

Recoil isn't just a question of caliber, it's also a question of the gun you're shooting it out of. Weight, internal mechanics and the fit of the weapon in your hands all makes a diffrence.

Example: I'm a .45 girl. I lurve me my 1911A1. I shoot +P ammunition out of that without any issues.
Glock 21 messes me up. Seriously, I get abrasions on my trigger finger from hitting the inside of the trigger gaurd, the base of my palm gets a nice Glock grip tecture pebbled into it and the streach between my thumb and index finger gets horrible bruised. The reason is I have to streatch my hand so much to grip it and reach the trigger, there's nothing to cushion the recoil.

If your wife is streaching out her hand to get a grip and reach the trigger, which she's likely doing even on the SA (it's not the length or grip on Sigs, it's the placement of the trigger) that's probably a bigger part of her recoil sensitivity then that "big" .40 S&W caliber.
 
Bluestarlizard, Im not following what your saying. You are saying that if the slide is locked back she should not use the slide release, or if it is already in battery not to use the release?

If its already in battery then ya, but if its locked back there should be no reason why the slide release should not work. It shouldn't take that much effort to release it. I think there may be a gun problem here. I have never ran into a gun with such a stiff slide release as is being discussed here.

Again bluestar, walk me through your statement. IF the slide is locked back, full magazine inserted, why shouldn't she simply depress the slide release, considering she is having trouble with the other method?

I was going to chime in with some suggestions but Pax is farther ahead then I could hope to be.

Redhologram, not to pick on you, im curious. Why do you not prefere to use the slide release? I cant stand the sling shot method. I wont purchase any firearm that requires such methods. Do you really find that using the release actually added time to your reloading sequence?

I Don't like the slingshot method because it makes me feel like im shooting poorly made crud. Like they were to lazy to put in a proper way to rtb.
 
Thank you very much pax! I will have her do just that the next time we go out.

After discussing her issue further I think her problem with the slide release is she has trouble reaching that as well.

And yes sigs the 229 in particular have very heavy slides. I read an article a bit ago that said where the 229 came from.I will post the name of it if I can find the magazine. It stated that when Smith and Wesson released the .40 caliber they tried to put it in the 228 better know as the M11A1 Since people wanted a .40 S&W compact. The release was delayed due to the high pressures exerted by the .40 cal round. According the the article the 228 designed around the 9mm luger had problems with the .40 cracking the slides. Hence the 229 was born. The only real difference is the 229 has a mega thick slide on it. I would go so far to say that a good 80%-90% of the gun's weight is the slide. Which is pretty different than say my friends 1911 that has a decent amount of weight in the frame. If I am not mistaken the recoil spring has to compensate for the pressure of the rounds used and the weight of slide? Which would mean that the spring in the 229 would have to be quite heavy correct?


As for shopping in general.... Well she is not much of a shopper. Which is just fine with me. My mom once stranded me in a dept store for 5 hours. That was not fun. lol





Thank you all very much for the suggestions and the continued support. This got far more involved and lengthy than I had anticipated, and I am very grateful for all of it.

Pax I would like to thank you in particular for continually aiding me in this matter.

Last question. I know on some of the older designs dropping the slide without a round can damage the gun. Will doing so with a modern pistol like the 229 damage the gun? Sorry I have learned a lot about semi auto pistols, but I am still learning. I just recently returned to shooting after years away and the bulk of my experience was on bolt action rifles and pump action shotguns.
 
Mordis,
You would do well not to pick on me indeed, passively or not.
You are welcome to like and dislike any method you want, purchase any handgun you want just as much as I am allowed to train in any self defense, speed and tactical techniques that work best, for me, to keep me alive and my gun in the fight in the most efficient amount of time possible.
I don't merely spend time on the range plinking. I train. With a more than qualified professional instructor. With very specific set standards.
 
Mordis,

To paraphrase Rob Pincus, in a critical situation, the adrinline rush can cause limited fine motor skills, resulting in fumbling. He advocates a manual release of a locked back slide as it requires less fine motor skills. Secondly, I generally cannot reach the slide release button on most pistols without altering my shooting grip on the pistol. So I don't use it.

No offense, but I've been training on combat handguns since I was 8 years old. Personally, I don't think it's all that difficult a consept, but I understand if you might have issues with it due to lack of familuarity with shooting.
 
Redhologram your defensiveness was unwarranted. Please tell me why I would be unwise to pick on you? Is that a threat?

I was not attacking you in any way. I merely phrased it that way to attempt to prevent exactly how you responded. So It looks like I failed in that regards.



I was merely asking why you preferred that method. Not questioning your training. You are not the only one here with training or a qualified instructor. I happen to have training and a qualified instructor.

Bluestarlizzard, I started my shooting lessons 10 years ago, on revolvers. In fact since then I have owned a few different types of autoloaders. I also have shot many more different types at the range rental and at friends houses.

I can see not being able to reach the slide release, I have that exact same problem with 1911 style pistols. I have to shift the gun to reach it. Being uncomfortable with that, and the numerous problems the gun was having I sold it for a loss. It was the only style of autoloader In my experience to this date that I had any trouble with the slide release due to not being able to reach it.

I didn't consider this as a issue with the OP because he did not mention it till his last post.. That would make sense. I still think that maybe it is still a gun issue tho. Slides shouldn't be that hard to retract.
 
There is a lot of great advice in the previous posts. But to give you a female perspective, I have the same problem with the slide lock on most guns honestly. I lack the strength and my hands are too small to operate most slide locks. I have had a lot of luck with my LC9 and my m&p. I've shot quite a few different semi autos until I found the "one" for me. My fiance carries a Glock 19 and it is really nice, but I found I was more accurate and just felt more comfortable with my m&p. My fiance hates my LC9 because it is so small but it works great for me because it is so much smaller. Although it does have substantially more recoil than the m&p because it is soooo small, its nothing I can't handle or put multiple magazines through it at a day at the range. I am by no means an expert on firearms, but I am just letting you know what has worked well for me. Good luck on finding her a great gun for her.
 
Thank you much Talybama. I appreciate the input.

I appreciate the input mordis, but if the spring tension were too high I think I would be having FTE's left and right. I have nearly 500 rounds through the gun at this point without any problems. It has literally functioned flawlessly and my wife is the only one who has had any issues with it. My dad, (who is 67 and not as strong as he used to be) myself, and A friend have all used it without issue.
 
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I was thinking, is she a small female? My wife is about 150lbs and she had a hard time with my glock 17. She was able to retract it but after much consternation. She was blessed with longer fingers so reaching the slide release was not hard.

Hmm did you have her try what pax suggested? She needs to put her whole body into the motion. Get the mass of her body behind it.
 
Not yet I have to keep my gun at my parents house at the moment. I don't have my CPL yet and I have reason to believe it might grow legs and walk off if I were to leave it at home while I'm not here. (Long story.) Anyway We will probably be going to my parents house sometime this weekend or maybe next week. But I think what pax said will work. I'm by no means an expert on firearms, but I do understand body positioning pretty well in terms of maximizing force and leverage as does my wife. I think it will work. And yes she is a petite framed person though we are both carrying some extra weight these days. I have very large palms and long skinny fingers. She has very small palms and short fingers. And the G17 is a fine weapon Sir.
 
Frag, are you a martial artist?? The way you are talking, suggests so. If so, try to apply what you know about body rotation and generation of force. She will be pulling the slide with one hand, and pushing the grip with the other.(If I read pax correctly) Have her treat that push like a punch. Every martial artist knows a good strong punch does not start with the arms, but the feet. Body rotation is key, get her mass in to it.

Just curious, which style do you practice??
 
I know large men who have a problem racking a slide. It's not a strength issue. It's a leverage issue. Anyone is "strong enough" to move the relatively light weight the short distance to cycle the thing. But like typing, sweeping, using a torque wrench, any physical activity, you have to figure out exactly what needs to happen and decide you want to make that happen.

Very similar stories come up all the time with music. People think their fingers are too small, too large, too sensitive, not sensitive enough to play the guitar, piano, bagpipes, anything. Then we hear about some lady lifting a car off of her baby who was trapped underneath.


Sgt Lumpy
 
How can large men have problems racking the slide? 10 years ago, I had no experience at all with autoloaders and I had no trouble pulling the slide back.

Can you give me a example of what your talking about.
 
Well, no, I can't give an example. I didn't film it. Some people just aren't intuitive to the leverage needed. Then sometimes you'll see an 9 year old kid working a 1911 at the range with no problem at all. It's just a matter of figuring out how to get the task done.

People who have trouble with it always seem to want to go extremely slow, and/or hold the gun out at arm's length in shooting position.

I don't think that it helps that we (men) promulgate the idea that "the wife" (I just hate that "the") needs a "girly gun" because she's not strong enough to work the "manley man" slide or handle the recoil that us big, tough, macho men can handle. Women can give birth. A few pounds of slide rack is nothing compared to that.


Sgt Lumpy
 
SgtLumpy is right.

There is a major diffrence between using brute force and calculating the leverge.

Woman tend to be a little more adapt at it since we come into such issues much more often (ever wonder how single women open the pickle jar?) Where there is the will there is almost always a way.

The trick with firearms is it's almost always about leverge. In all my years fiddling with guns I've only found one thing that requires me to use brute force and it's not anything to do with slides.

Being timid is usually the fail move in a lot of activities, and with guns as well. Trying to move a semi auto into battery slowly just doesn't work. The action requires the full force of that slide going forward. Trying to move it slowly will make you more likely to ride it a second as you let go. It's not a physical action that requires a lot of strength, but it does require decisiveness.
It's stupid easy and if you try to make it less stupid easy, you screw it up. Overthink it, and you'll never get it to work. ;)

fragtagninja, another thing for both you and the wife to keep in mind is don't push it to the point she becomes frustrated with it.
Try the diffrent things suggested here and if they don't work after a few goes at it, just let it sit for awhile. Do something else, relax and have some fun. You mention your dad has some other guns? See if she can't shoot those for a bit and just set the Sig aside for awhile.
Come back to it later, when she's relaxed and in a more confident state of mind.

Or, if she wants to push it and gets in that PO'd "I'm gonna freakin' do this already" mood, just leave her alone and let her figure it out. ;)

The above are my two main go to moves when I can't get something to work, and in the end I ALWAYS get it to work.
 
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I'm female. I have the M&P 22 mentioned. I find it workable, but the frame is pretty much full size. I also own a Bersa BP9CC 9mm compact carry. I guarantee she will like the feel of that pistol.
 
:confused:
.22's? Really? And a .380?


Where's the barf smilie?


I clearly am not "most" woman... Or the "little woman" syndrome is going rampent?

Methinks the later.

My personal recomendation, should your wife go pistol shopping is an XD, compact or subcompact.

The weight offsets the other issues with recoil in a smaller pistol, and neither are really all that small. I've got the subcompact in .40 s&w and it shoots like a little dream and fits my small hands and short fingers wonderfully.
The only downside is the slide is heavy until it breaks in. If she does go that direction, perhaps she could try for a used one.
The M&P (my personal issues aside) compact line seems to be comprable.
I'd pass on all Glocks, as the subcompacts are a little smaller and all of them bit more sensitive to how a person handles recoil. Limp wrists are bad, but the frustration factor of pitting limp wrist against a Glock is worse (been there, done that, years later I can pick on up and go to town)

Never discount a full size 1911A1 as an option. The .45 recoil is heavier, but it doesn't snap. The slender single stack frame makes getting a grip easier for smaller hands, which also can offset the felt recoil.

I'm sure someone else can come by with more steel frame options and a run down. All of the above can be had at very reasonable prices. No spending $400+ on a .22 :rolleyes:

Save the mouse guns for later.
 
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