A Father/Daughter talk

H

hogan

New member
Father Daughter talk



A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and was very much in favor of "the redistribution of wealth."





She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.





One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.





Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.





Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Audrey doing?"





She replied, "Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2 .0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over."





Her wise father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."





The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!"





The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, "Welcome to the Republican party."
 
It's about as silly and nonsensical as me claiming the father didn't know how the grading system worked because Republicans aren't smart enough for college.

HURR I MAKE FUNNY
 
I am a Republican but...

I am also a realist. It takes tremendous effort and drive for people in the lower socio-economic class to move up in the world. Kids growing up in the ghetto are constantly exposed to crime, drugs, violence, gangs, and a whole bunch of other "great" things. Try concentrating in school when you have little or no parental guidance since they are either working just to keep a roof over their heads or maybe drunk, high, or locked up. Try going to college when you have no money at all and can barely afford to keep food on the table and a roof over your head. For the kids, it not their fault. They did not choose the parents they would have. Unfortunately, most just give into their circumstances and become like those around them. Very few have the intelligence and determination to pull themselves out of their situations.

We need to help those that are less fortunate, but we have to change the system. We can not reward those who are too lazy to work yet keep popping out babies they can't afford to feed. We need to improve our educational system to give everyone an equal chace to move up. With that said, I do believe that I should keep most of the money I work hard for, but failure to help those less fortunate leads to higher crime and needless human suffering.
 
another fairy tale

Yes children here is another fairy tale. In this one children the good daughter is saved from all the evils in the world by becoming a Republican.
:rolleyes:
 
We need to help those that are less fortunate
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Go ahead, nobody is stopping you. Help as much as you can afford. Just do not demand that there be federal government programs set up to do the helping for you. After all, these programs tend to be inefficient and open to corruption, not to mention unconstitutional.
Free people should decide for themselves how and where their charitable efforts will be spent.
 
zbordas said:
According to police, six of the seven teens involved in this home invasion robbery are documented gang members of the Rolling 60’s, which is affiliated with the Crips out of Los Angles. At the time of their arrests all the suspects were Alief Elsik High School students.
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As I mentioned... gang affiliation. Maybe he is pressured into taking the job by his friends. There are always examples of people having everything they need and more and still making stupid decisions. Heck, look at a lot of celebrities. Drug and alcohol addiction seems to be rampant. My point is it is much harder for someone surrounded by negative influences to ignore those influences and do something with their lives.

I am the franchisee of a national restaurant chain. I have some really great kids that give most of their paycheck to help support their families. The really amazing thing is that most of them are honors students that bust their butt at work (30 - 40 hours a week) and then go burn the midnight oil to get their homework done. Again, this is the exception rather than the norm. What if some of my kids can't afford to go to college because they have to work to support their families? Is it their fault they weren't born into wealthy families?
 
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miboso said:
Go ahead, nobody is stopping you. Help as much as you can afford. Just do not demand that there be federal government programs set up to do the helping for you. After all, these programs tend to be inefficient and open to corruption, not to mention unconstitutional.
Free people should decide for themselves how and where their charitable efforts will be spent.
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You can talk about the constitution and free people all you want. Public schools come from your taxes whether you have kids or not. What about roads that you don't drive on? Should your tax dollars go to that? What if you don't need police protection or fire protection? Were provisions made in the constitution for that? (Next time you use that arguement, pause for a second to think about how limited the constitution really is in scope and how many parts of the government were never even thought of when the constitution was written) I'm willing to bet if a major disaster hit your area, you'd change your tune pdq. What if you lost everything in Hurricane Katrina or had your house burn down in California? What if an earthquake swallowed your home? Do you have the resources to recover from these events? Most people don't, but they pay into the federal government with their taxes and the gvernment helps them. Is there such thing as freedom from corruption? I don't believe so. Maybe we should have just let everyone die in Louisiana. :rolleyes::barf:

By the way, I do my part in addition to paying taxes. There are plenty of programs out there that are not supported by the government but are worthwhile causes. Some of those even take care of our veterans. In a way, I am repaying them in a small way for the all sacrifices they made.
 
What if you lost everything in Hurricane Katrina or had your house burn down in California? What if an earthquake swallowed your home? Do you have the resources to recover from these events? Most people don't, but they pay into the federal government with their taxes and the gvernment helps them.
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I thought there's homeowners insurance...

When the insurance company cannot fund the recovery and refuse to do so that's a goverment/legal issue however. Not sure why would anybody think the goverment should fund loss of property due to natural disaster.
 
Our little parable here fails on two counts.

One, in the real world Audrey isn't always getting a 2.0 because she's too busy partying and making friends. In the real world sometimes our allegorical college makes incoming freshman start out with a -2.0 GPA, while other start at zero, while others get to start at a 4.0 and don't even need to show up to maintain it.

Also, in the real world Audrey may decide to go buy herself a gun and force you to give her all of your credits. And while the administration may manage to kick her out of school afterward, often they have no way to actually reinstate your credits regardless.

But hey, if you simplify things down far enough and ignore those pesky details it's easy to shoehorn reality into even the most narrow of worldviews.
 
stephen, you ignored the "inefficient and open to corruption" part of my post.

think about how limited the constitution really is in scope and how many parts of the government were never even thought of when the constitution was written
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Believe you me, I think about this a lot and wish it were not so.
Please think about the following phrase: Limited government and personal responsibility. If we need help, that is what family, friends, neighbors, churches and other local social groups are for.

We haven't tried this path in a long while, let's give it a try and see what happens. We can always go back to big government. In fact, it seems entirely too easy to get there.
 
No shoehorning in this. It's a simple illustration of a basic principle. Work hard and earn something then you deserve to keep it. Not any forcing or twisting of ideas involved. What's forced and twisted is the argument that it you don't deserve to keep it.

People that self identify as Republicans year after year voluntarily give more then those that self identify as Democrat. Generosity is not lacking in the ranks of Republicans. Helping those in need is a common value. It's not that Republicans are callus to the needy, it's that they are opposed to it being coerced.

Human nature is such that people excel when challenged and languish when coddled. There are of course exceptions but as a rule people will strive when comfortable. Entitlements meant to give people a hand too often evolve into means of sustenance by the argument that the people just can't do it on their own. Truth is they will if they have to and help is available via private organizations when people become victims of circumstance. Those organizations are funded by voluntary contributions and the one's that are seem as genuine charities are well funded.

The real sad thing is that the principle of keeping what you have earned to do with as you please even has opponents.
 
No shoehorning in this. It's a simple illustration of a basic principle. Work hard and earn something then you deserve to keep it. Not any forcing or twisting of ideas involved. What's forced and twisted is the argument that it you don't deserve to keep it.
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Well, the primary shoehorning I was talking about is the implication in the OP's little story that the only way somebody can be failing (or even just under performing) is through laziness. There is definitely some correlation between hard work and financial success, I'm not arguing otherwise. But it's not ironclad, and there are plenty of exceptions on both ends of the spectrum. I've met them, again on both ends of the spectrum.

As for private charity versus public programs, I'm sure we could go all day on that one. I do agree that many/most of the programs currently available are open to far too much abuse, something that needs to be changed. Aside from that, I really don't care enough at the moment to argue the point.

I was just suggesting that the little parable in the OP (pretty sure I've heard it before, I think it's actually hit the email forward circuit) isn't nearly as deep, nor as valid, as the original author might like to think it is.
 
I think the simple story is taken to a level that is beyond the basic meaning. It's not a story to give answers to every problem, folks. Just a simple lesson.

Stephen426,
I want to establish a baseline of understanding before I reply to your statements. We haven't engaged in debate much here, which is why I'm beating around the bush for a moment. I have read many of your posts since you've joined. I find from my observation that you're a rational thinker and respectful of others' opinions. With that, I don't mean to make inflammatory statements towards you. So....

You can talk about the constitution and free people all you want. Public schools come from your taxes whether you have kids or not. What about roads that you don't drive on? Should your tax dollars go to that?
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I see these comparisons a bit different. I will most likely eventually use the roads that I pay taxes for. If I have kids, I don't think I should pay for one dime in taxes that go to public schools. I view it as a form of Socialism, or, income redistribution...

What if you don't need police protection or fire protection? Were provisions made in the constitution for that? (Next time you use that arguement, pause for a second to think about how limited the constitution really is in scope and how many parts of the government were never even thought of when the constitution was written)
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I don't have a problem with my tax dollars going directly to police or fire depts.

I'm willing to bet if a major disaster hit your area, you'd change your tune pdq. What if you lost everything in Hurricane Katrina or had your house burn down in California? What if an earthquake swallowed your home? Do you have the resources to recover from these events? Most people don't, but they pay into the federal government with their taxes and the gvernment helps them.
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No, I wouldn't. I'd rather have more of my tax dollars going to state/local levels for assisstance in act of God scenarios. The above scenarios pose disasters that can be covered by insurance. If you can't afford the insurance for the home, maybe a less extravagant home is in order. Call me insensitive, but I have absolutely NO pity for people building multimillion dollar homes on San Adreas' fault or on a hill destined for a mud slide just to get the best view on the block. Actually, most people do have the resources to recover from the events. They just don't prepare for them. That isn't the fault of the fed govt., you, or me. It's the person that didn't plan for it.

Is there such thing as freedom from corruption? I don't believe so. Maybe we should have just let everyone die in Louisiana.
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No, there isn't. But I do believe that there's a much more efficient way to be governed and better way of citizens being able to care for one another. As far as "just let everyone die in Louisiana", this is a statement that I can't answer in a brief statement and cover my full explaination. All I can say is a couple of "food for thought" items....

1. The citizens of Louisiana know the fact that the majority of the area damaged most was registered as below sea level. The dams haven't been upgraded in decades even though the Army Corps of Engineers begged for more funding to fix the problem. The state govt. misapropriated the funds to other "more pressing" needs instead of listening to the ones that knew what they were talking about.

2. The citizens knew that they live in an area that gets hammered by hurricanes on a regular basis.

3. The citizens chose to live there knowing the dangers of living in an area prone to natural disaster.

4. The citizens voted time and time again idiotic politicians to represent them.

5. The citizens voted AGAIN the SAME politicians after Katrina.

6. The citizens chose to not insure their homes and belongings.

See a pattern?
 
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Good story.

Helping people in need is one thing. Those who would bash the republican theme need to spend some quality time with my brother in-law/outlaw (my wifes parents rescued him off the streets of Baltimore circa 1961 when his mother abandoned him)

The man is intelligent and able bodied. He lives in Vermont and insists the world owes him a living. He is a drug user, both legal and illegal but he has no real medical need for his pain killers. He takes them to get high.

As a convicted criminal he supports gun control politicians.

He does not work, and gets very angry when his entitlement, food stamps, or prescription service is not to his liking. We are all paying for his ride.

Dr. Hawking has proven what even terminally ill profoundly disabled people are capable of. Certainly we need to help. We need to stop enabling as well.

And it's a good story. Kudos to the OP.
 
If we need help, that is what family, friends, neighbors, churches and other local social groups are for.
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Nice but not everyone has access to such things. Not everyone lives around friendly neighbors or will be accepted by churches. Not everyone has the means to just up and move to another state more friendly to their needs.
 
Of course, farm subsidies don't count. Those are completely different.

Nice but not everyone has access to such things. Not everyone lives around friendly neighbors or will be accepted by churches. Not everyone has the means to just up and move to another state more friendly to their needs.
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Actually, it is almost a certainty that your neighbors are in nearly the same situation as you.
 
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