A Challenge to the 870 Express Bashers....

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Dave McC

Staff In Memoriam
Since I often help out new shooters and spend as much time almost as much time at the range as on the Net, I see lots of Expresses being used as they were intended to be. I usually handle these and shoot them to establish they shoot where they look and if they function.

The test....

I stand at Post 3 on a trap range shooting at either trap or wobble singles. I load a shell directly into the chamber and close the action slowly. I check to see if it locks up and feeds the shells correctly, then load another in the magazine. I call for the bird, shoot and gently cycle the action.

A gentle shuck,BTW, will often glitch a pump. They were meant to be racked with vigor.

I repeat a couple times, racking hard to see if that jams things up. Once done, and after most targets break well, I hand it back to the owner and tell them it's a good shotgun. And, I mean it.

This has happened perhaps 20 times in the last year or so.Each Express has functioned 100% and targets break with monotonous regularity.

So.I wonder just where all the junker Expresses are. According to some folks here and on the other BBs I mod, all Expresses reek, jam, fail to feed and eject and rust solid overnight in the Arizona desert.

So here's the challenge......

I live in Central MD and frequent PGC Trap and Skeet Center on Good Luck Road near NASA. I can be found there most Saturdays, or PM me and we'll set up another time.

Bring down those junker Expresses. I'll shoot them, fix them or give you $150 cash for them if they're not rusted or abused.Rusted and abused, $100.

That's more than a gun shop will give you. I do not expect to buy a lot of shotguns from this challenge.

Express bashers,the ball is now officially in your court......
 
This is a ridiculous straw man argument.

You know Remington is putting out garbage now. You have this un natural fascination with the 870. Fine. They are GREAT guns when they work. The problem is that the new 870 expresses often don't. And, you know that.

Use Google. To search 870 jamming, 870 problem, 870 extraction ...
 
Perhaps I've been lucky, but I've had two 870's with out any problems. I bought an 870 20 gauge in early March, and have put about 400 shells through it...also with out a problem. In fact, my shooting buddies say I have better hits on clays with the 870-20 ga., than with either 12 ga. Beretta's I own.

You won't be seeing me anytime soon Dave.
 
Is it your choice to fix them or buy them? If so, I don't think you'll be buying many 870s either, but you may be fixing a few. I know you would have had to have fixed mine, because no change in handling would have made it function correctly.

Right out of the box, the extractor follower and follower spring had so much corrosion on them that that follower stuck in the compressed position, causing the extractor to just flop around rather than grabbing the shell rim.

And there are too many stories of people not needing to do anything more than polish the chamber to fix their problems for there not to be some fire to go along with the smoke.

I love my 870, and it's been 100% since cleaning up the extractor assembly, so I don't think the 870 is an inherently-flawed design, but I also think that there are owners out there with legitimate problems.
 
Last September, it was time for my 14 year old Grandson to step up to a 12Ga. and even knowing what I know about the "NEW" 870 Expresses, I bought him one. Obviously I did not intend to buy him, what you term as junk. However, one cannot ignor the fact they are just not making them like they use to. I felt that he and I could work through the negatives and we did. After a routine cleaning, out of the box and after three rounds, it failed to eject but not a big problem and that one was behind us. The refinishing of the new stock is on our schedule and again, not a probem. We are still watching for and cleaning up after, the areas that are more prone to rust and that is not a problem as well. I own older expresses and bought newer ones and suffice to say, the quality on the newer ones has been reduced. I still would recommend them as they are still good enough. Won't take your offer as right now, I don't have a problem.

If that Profiles me as a Basher, so be it !! ... ;)

Be Safe !!!
 
Right out of the box, the extractor follower and follower spring had so much corrosion on them that that follower stuck in the compressed position, causing the extractor to just flop around rather than grabbing the shell rim.
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Thats the fault of your dealer/distributor (especially in moist Virginia) not Remington.

We as Remington (and other brandss) dealers, do something I think is extraordinary...

We look at the guns we sell ;) We clean where needs cleaning, get the bleed out bluing salts off, get the gunk and preservatives out and inspect for defects.

WildexceptforsealedboxcollectorgunsAlaska TM
 
You know Remington is putting out garbage now.
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That's surely the impression when you ignore a simple fact: you hear more out of unhappy owners than happy ones. Especially on the internet. If Remington sells 100 shotguns and one has a problem, chances are extremely high that 99 owners aren't logging onto a half dozen boards and talking about how great the thing is. That one unhappy one just might well do that.

I bought a 105 CTi II last October. It's been a fantastic shotgun, and I've pretty well been called a liar over at Shotgun World because everybody knows Remington makes crap, the first ones had issues, and one loudmouth continues to crap all over everything whose name doesn't begin with the second letter of the alphabet.

But my CTi has only failed to eject once (this past outing; I have probably going on a thousand rounds through it so far), and I shot my first straight (skeet) with it a couple weeks back. The moment I started shooting it in leagues other guys noted how well I shot the thing and how well it worked. But because the internet is always the expert, the model gets no respect.

I highly doubt the 870 is as flawed as some people insist, and if there's problem ones out there, it more reflects the sheer volume that are made and sold than anything else. Are they made with the same care and detail as they were 40 years ago? Probably not, but labor costs have gone through the stratosphere since then; if they made them overseas we'd see people complain about how they don't make them in the US anymore.
 
I agree that you pretty much only hear about the bad ones. That said, there aren't nearly as many complaints about the other shotgun makers' bad guns. Some of this is due to the fact that there are many more 870s sold than other models...and some of it is due to the reality that there are some 870 express models that don't function 100% reliably when purchased. Whether this is due to bad QC or bad storage is irrelevant to most buyers who expect to get a gun that works.

My express certainly has issues. If I lived closer to you (Dave McC) I would certainly take you up on your offer.

I think that some people are very upset and the internet provides a place to 'vent'. Some of the problems are probably easy fixes. I don't see that people would choose to 'bash' the 870 without cause.

I have had a Winchester model 1300 for 21 years that has never (read: NEVER) failed. However, I am sure that there are some 1300s that have failed. The bottom line is that you should not trust a new firearm to be reliable until you have personally shot it enough to verify its reliability.
 
Wont be seeing me Dave, bought my "garbage" 870 express last fall and have deer, rabbit and even some groundhog hunted with it without one single issue with it yet! The gun is solid and wouldnt think of getting rid of it unless the baby needed diapers and i couldnt call any wild pampers within range. I have noticed that many of the 870 bashing posts are about a "friends" gun and not their own...just something i noticed
 
In my case... The expresses have been fine while the new wingmasters I bought were both problem children!!! Go figure!!!

I do not hate remington.. I love my 1100... I love my 700s that work, the latest brand new 700 CDL I bought has been a problem from day one... I own the guns I complain about....
 
I have a 12 and a 20 youth, both are "newer". The 20 was bought used and the 12 was bought new.

No problems, no jams, no FTF or FTE. 3 years of opening day of dove season and a whole bunch of assorted bagging.

I'd buy another.
 
Any pump shotgun that will eject an unfired round out more than 5 feet yet only dribble, at best, if at all, an empty out has design problems. Enter the 870 Express. 75 rounds in the hands of 3 experienced shooters with 17 failures to eject and the rest just barely ejecting. Consensus of myself and the other 2, it’s just junk.....
 
They will fire when you get a round in the chamber, no doubt about it. My argument is that they qualitly is not what it has been/should be. Its sad when its better to buy a shotgun that costs $100 less than the Remingon because it works better.


You shoud never have to only shoot a certain type of ammo or do any special thing to make it work. A good friend of mine has one that shoots pretty good most of the timem, but it jams maybe once every 30 rounds or so. Thats about once every 30 rounds too many in my opinion.
 
I presently own 5 870's. 1 express 12 gauge (with 2 barrels), an express 20 gauge, 2 wingmaster 12 gauges and a Police Magnum 12 gauge. Never had a failure with any of them, though to be honest one of the Wingmasters (a 30" Trap gun) came home with me today :D.

I've owned 2 other expresses and 3 other Wingmasters in my time (swapped away for other guns over the years) 1 failure with one of the expresses. It didn't like to eject Brenneke slugs until I polished the chamber just a bit. In all reality I may have missed some preservative gunk on that one before the first range trip.
 
If it makes you feel any better a friend of mine had the extractor on his Benelli Nova go flying into the wild blue yonder during a dove hunt never to be seen again............Had to be sent back for repair.

Don't let this thread discourage you on 870's. The failure rate is no higher than other models. They are still the standard by which others are judged.
 
If it makes you feel any better a friend of mine had the extractor on his Benelli Nova go flying into the wild blue yonder during a dove hunt never to be seen again............Had to be sent back for repair.

Don't let this thread discourage you on 870's. The failure rate is no higher than other models. They are still the standard by which others are judged.
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This is honestly the first mechanical problem I've heard someone have with the Nova. It seems most people just complain about hating the feel of the thing but personally the Benelli fits me like a glove where as the 870 is a little uncomfortable for me to shoot. I was trying to go with the classic but I think I'm going to tell them to keep it and get the Nova.
 
I am a big Remington fan, I shoot skeet and trap better with my 870's and/or 1100's than my Perazzi. My 3200's are better yet.

Nothing wrong with the Express but ugliness. It is just a very plain sister when put along side the Wingmaster. For the same money I'd buy a good used Wingmaster. For a duck blind, grouse woods or chukar ridges take the Express. Or, borrow your buddies Beretta EELL! :p

PS: I have lost extrators but due to improper resizing or cheapo Wally-World steel based shells.
 
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No body want's to go shooting ?

WOW if I lived closer I'd buy one just to go shooting with you.



.
 
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