A Boltgun Question

My Grandfather used a Remington 721 bolt action .270 as his hunting and primary home defense weapon well into his golden years, passing in 1979. He served in the National Guard in the 20's and had been trained to use a bolt action 1903 Springfield for battle. He could have used a shotgun or handgun in retirement as a home defense weapon, but he gave his other guns away, keeping the Remington. He preferred the power of his trusty rifle and familiarity of the bolt action. The .270 is an awesome cartridge.
He shot a ton of game with the gun, deer, bear, wild hogs, woodchucks, fox, etc. There are clips on Youtube of WW1 and WW2 fighting men using bolt actions rapid fire. It comes down to training and familiarity. I own the 721 now and can say from experience, that bolt can be worked VERY fast in the field and the damage a high powered hunting round inflicts on large game is... well, devastating to say the least. My son just shot a whitetail doe yesterday with my bolt action Remington BDL 700 .270... one shot. Massive impact and trauma... almost like it was struck by lightning. Handgun cartridges are not in the same class, in my opinion (and I have hunted with both), compared to the tissue damage that a high powered deer rifle bullet inflicts. If over penetration isn't a concern, train with your rifle and use it. If it's new, oil and work the bolt repeatedly to smooth it out. A metal buttplate is handy on a battle rifle (Gramp's old Remington 721 has a metal butt plate), as butt strokes were a last ditch, close range tactic. At least they were in WW1 and WW2. Are there better home defense systems? Sure. The current market offers some truly outstanding home defense weapons based around shotgun shells. But I wouldn't feel at a disadvantage with a good bolt action high powered rifle (.243, .30-06, .308, .270, 7MM Magnum, etc.), when dealing with things that go bump in the night.
 
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I reckon that the best bolt action rifle caliber for home defense inside the house would be a 22 Long Rifle, and second best would be a 22 magnum.
But wait a minute,.... I almost forgot the Ruger 77/357.
However, in the real world, if all you have is a bolt action rifle, it will have to do.... But it sounds like a perfectly justifiable excuse to buy another gun that would be more appropriate to the task.
 
If a Bolt Action Rifle is what you have, then you make it work for you. It is a whole lot better than a club of some sort. But there are better choices IMHO. A short barreled Pump or Semi Auto Shotgun in a 12 gauge with heavy shot for one. Or a short barreled Semi Auto Carbine, such as an Old 30 Cal M-1 Carbine loaded with soft point ammo in a 30 round magazine or both. These are two of my all time personal favorites, and they work for me. As far as handguns go, I prefer Long Barreled Glocks such as 17L`s in 9mm or a model 24 in 40SW with extended magazines for house guns. And an easy to turn off and on light on each one of these firearms. I have always found extended round magazines to be very comforting, in the dark when I am scared. You will just have to trust me on that last statement.
ken
 
If you are able to hit them, they are close enough to hit you.
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The OP mentioned home defense. You can hit someone with a bolt gun at, oh let's say, 300 yds. That won't generally qualify as your general home defense scenario. Rarely have I heard of a home invader who sniped occupants from the tree line before entering the house.

But a 5-6 lb 223 or 308 with an 18-20" barrel and the right ammo wouldn't be that bad.
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Even with these choices your likely at more than double the velocity of a handgun. Home defense implies close quarters. A .308 firing just about any bullet (I guess you could have loaded your home defense .308 scout rifle with 110 grain varmigeddons) at 12' is going to pass through, unless perhaps you shoot someone sideways through the pelvis.

It should be noted that this whole thread has me laughing good-naturedly.
 
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Guns don't defend homes.
Humans do.

If a man or woman is well trained with ANY firearm they are no one to try to mess with, and the fact you are within room distance would only work against an enemy if facing someone who could kill a running deer at 150 yards. Moving men at 4 yards are a LOT easier to hit then moving deer at 150. And rifles are deadlier then handguns in most cases because they are more powerful.

The down side to home defense with a high powered rifle is simply power. Excellent for dealing with an enemy, but when it goes through him it's still deadly, and those behind that enemy may be in grave danger. So using a rifle as you tool to defend your family and home has to be made on a case by case basis. At my house it's not a problem because my nearest neighbor is 1.4 miles away. My go-to gun is a semi-auto 308 loaded with the same ammo I'd hunt elk or deer with. Addressing the ammo and specifically the bullets used for home defense is FAR more important then worrying about the gun used to fire them.

And there are plenty of bolt actions is less powerful calibers, from 22 up to 7.62X39 (just as an example.)

The prevailing idea today is that you must "defend your home" with a handgun or a shotgun just like the cops would use, and nothing else is a good choice. I reject the idea that such things are as important as we are led to believe. What is important is skill.

EVERY army on earth is trained to fight with rifles. That's because rifles are best for fighting! So if a rifle is the best choice for fighting in an open all-out war, how did it become less able of less suitable if defending the home against a few bad-guys?
Do you think that somehow "suppressing fire" is not going to work against you both in a fight (giving away your position as well as empting your weapon) and also in the court room later? How would a 17 or even a 30 round semi-auto be "better" then one round that does the job?

In civil shootings, missing with ANYTHING carries it's own set of dangers and penalties because you don't just keep walking like you would in a war. You deal with cops neighbors, passers-by, lawyers and judges after the shooting is over. If we acknowledge that it's the rounds that hit that do the job to eliminate the threat, and also to keep "collateral damage" close to zero, is there anyone out there that thinks a hunting rifle in the hands of a hunter is somehow less dangerous to an enemy then a Glock 17?

It's the shooter that is the focus, not the tool!
Any gun will do if the shooter can do a good job with that gun.

Anyone that thinks a handgun welding fighter is more dangerous then a rifle welding fighter is someone that has never been in a fight. Let alone many of them. They are reading and believing wrong information.

I believe that any rifle is better then any handgun in home defense situation. I'd concede that in the hands of a national champion (or even just a good marksman) a handgun is a fantastic weapon, but can you think of any national champs that shoot better with their handguns then they do with rifles at home/room distances?

Is there any handgun round that is any "better" at killing an enemy then any middle-of-the-road deer rifle round? Would you do better in front of a jury, having killed an invader with 1 round from a 30-30, or your old 243 Bolt Action, then you would if you'd used 3 or more (maybe a lot more) from a 9MM?

Think folks!

Missing with the rifle is far less common then missing with the handgun.
That's why most hunters and soldiers use rifles.

So do SWAT cops, and even patrol cops, if they have any time to make the choice.
 
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Power wouldn't be the ONLY consideration, and as a retired cop I chose then & now to use a handgun in going through buildings.
Simply infinitely easier to handle indoors.

But, the argument isn't specifically over which is best, it's more confined to rifle- good or bad for HD.
Denis
 
With the exception of one 22 RF, all my rifles are bolt actions. Been that way for a lot of years. I would not consider it! I have two self defense weapons. Both are 9mm semi auto's. I also have a few DA handguns and another 22 LR handgun. The only thing I'd consider for self defense is an auto handgun in the cartridge of your choice. Been proven that a 38 spec will stop a grizzly bear. It is not what I'd choose to do it with though! Buy yourself a gun designed for self defense and start from there. My carry gun hold's 8 rounds and the gun on my headboard 16 rounds. Forget the bolt action!
 
Sorry for reopening a dead thread (last post was about a month and a half ago), but I'm currently shopping for a home defense carbine and this thread popped up...

I think what most people answering here have missed is how specialized you can go with a bolt action rifle. Not all are long range or high powered hunting rifles.

Many people, myself included, are fans of revolver caliber lever rifles as home defense guns. They are light and handy, and while not great, the 8-10 rounds of the typical mag isn't terrible. Other people are big fans of loud, heavy recoiling, low capacity shotguns for home defense.

Well, I'm strongly considering a bolt action scout style rifle for home defense. In .223 you don't have to worry too much about overpenetration (hence the popularity of the AR and similar carbines for HD). Something like the Ruger Scout or Mossberg MVP Patrol have useful iron sights. Both have 10 round detachable mags for a decent round count and easy reloads. The Ruger American Predator and the Mossberg MVP use cheap, plentiful AR mags which can be had with a pretty decent capacity if you wish. I'm thinking a scout type rifle with irons or a low power scope, or the American Predator and MVP with more standard scope placement but a suitable low power scope or red dot scope, would work quite well for home defense.

It is definitely on my radar (along with more conventional choices like the lever rifle, M1 Carbine, and Mini-14) for my HD carbine.
 
Though I have a very nicely sporterized Model of 1917 Eddystone in the safe, it's one I'd never think of as a home defense arm. But if it's all you have...(besides a WWI vintage 1911 for backup, and a trench knife)

This video has always impressed me, and a lefty to boot! Rifle, handgun and "Doughboy" attired. This guy's good, and using maybe the most (one of, undoubtedly) unwieldy of bolt-action rifles ever mass produced (IMO). I certainly do love mine as a hunting rifle.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JZLKtm7HcG4&t=304s

The old Brit .303 has most always been considered the best bolt-action battle rifle through small arms history the way I understand it. 10 quick shots, and a time-proven and very effective round. Maybe the No.5 Mk.1, "Jungle Carbine," for fast handling as you jump out of bed @ 3a.m.?
 
Its probably been over thirty years since I read the story in,I believe,Gun Digest. It may have been a JM Pyne story.It had to do with a family scene in a backwoods cabin,and a car showing up with a couple of armed gangster types on the run.
The situation deteriorated to a hostage scenario.
Problem for the bad guys was The Old Man,who had a 32-40 single shot . And he was an accomplished offhand marksman. As I recall,the bad guys "lost their minds" suddenly.
I recall reading the book "Unimtended Consequences" where a single shot bolt .22 made the character "armed" and he was effective
The Peckenpah movie "Straw Dogs"illustrates its not about what gun you have.

Wyosmith already said it well. Your mind is your primary weapon.

As you are selecting your SD tool,you might consider scenarios that you are surprised and off balance. What is the storage situation for your bolt gun?


How quickly can you react? I recall a 3 AM situation when I was sound asleep.The quickest ammo access I had was a few 20 ga shells so the gun of choice was my SKB SxS. The frantic woman at my front door said my likely foe was her husband ,armed with a knife. Then she asked what the shotgun was for.


At this point,you have the luxury of choosing your primary tool. Use your mind well.


For a number of reasons,I don't think the old Remington Over/Under derringer is the best choice for a SD handgun. If you are slammed to the ground by someone bent og killing you,the Rem Derringer you have on your person may be better than the MP-5 in the gunsafe.
I suppose if you can manage the lifestyle of an infantry rifleman,and lay your rifle on the table as you enjoy your breakfast and coffee...you have a SD plan.

All things considered,the handgun you wear like your wallet and keys is probably your best primary SD gun..Many folks choose a small,light 9mm. If you want to back that up with the long gun of your choice,great.

If that is an Arctic Warrior in 338 Lapua,the after shoot investigation might be interesting.
 
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I have bolt actions, semi's, and shotguns. Nightstand gun is chambered in 45acp and has one light hanging on it. Rest of the time around the house is a 9mm in my pocket. Works for me. But you use what you got and train with what you use.
 
Obviously ANY gun you happen to have on you or access to in a sudden defensive situation CAN be used.
The old anecdote about the 150-year-old Eskimo woman who killed a polar bear with one .22LR shot through the eye because she only had a .22 single-shot rifle is a fun story, but that's ALL it is.
It is certainly NOTHING that justifies depending on a single-shot .22 rifle for defense.

My question is WHY would you deliberately select a bolt-action rifle up front as your go-to for home defense?

This is not a matter of being suddenly confronted by smug drugglers along the trail when all you happen to have during the deer hunt is your trusty ought-six.

This is not a matter of only having Uncle Joe's inherited Browning Hi-Wall single-shot as your sole gun in the entire house during a late-night break-in.

This is not a matter of wheeling your shopping cart past the gun section at WallMart one Saturday & noticing $200 off on a boltgun deal you just can't pass up regardless of need or use & making an unintended impulse buy.

This is sitting here in your house today, with money available, considering a tool you are acquiring to bet your life on, with all afternoon (or all month) to make your decision.

There are simply so many better options, why deliberately & intentionally handicap yourself?

I was offered an article assignment a month or so ago from a regular editor on the bolt-action for HD.
Had to turn it down.
Just could not get my head wrapped around the idea to be able to write it up in any positive way. :)
Denis
 
I have a Remington XP-100. (all original)

it's a handgun (ok, its a LARGE handgun) but its a handgun, so its maneuverable inside the house.

It fires the same bullets as the .223, so with varmint bullets, get the same "low wall penetration" score.

It's a bolt action.

Why isn't this an ideal home defense gun??

ok, its magazine capacity is 0+1, so it does lack something there....
:rolleyes:

(yes, the sarcasm is intentional)

If you are going to deliberately choose a bolt action rifle as a home defense weapon, then I suggest you get one of the milsurps (SMLE being the best for ease of bolt operation and magazine capacity) and FIX BAYONETS!

And, get the blade bayonet, not the spike one. A foot or foot and half of sharp knife on the end of your rifle can be useful under the right conditions, and its, intimidating as hell! :D

It's amazing the number of people who will stand fast in the face of being shot, but will run as fast as they can to keep from being stabbed!! :rolleyes:
 
Crosshairs before he makes it through the door or window has such a limited range of viability that you'd pretty much be limited to living out in the prairie with a herd of wild bikers circling the house & shooting guns toward you.

Not a realistic scenario.

Middle of the night break-in, you're not going to see anybody coming.
Front door busted in suddenly, same.
Unable to even notice a threat is building before it's in the house, same.

MAYBE a gang-related drive-by, but even then why slow yourself down with a boltgun?
Denis
 
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