9mm revolver

IIRC European 9MM was always loaded "hotter" to ensure proper functioning, especially in Lugers. +P ammunition-that's the modern version of the old 38-44/38 HiVel rounds. 9MM is usually faster than 38 Special due to lighter bullets-115gr/124gr vs. 158gr.
Again revolvers using rimless cartridges like semiauto so using rimmed rounds. Sounds like a fun thing but they never seem to sell. I have a Ruger Old Model Blackhawk in .357/9MM, the ejector rod makes removing fired cases easy.
 
When I carry a revolver it's 357 magnum 158gr JSP. When I carry a pistol it's 9mm or 45ACP both calibers are HP. I have never seen the need to challenge the performance of any of them. But two world wars were lost by the kids shooting 9mm.
 
Is 9mm better in that it's got equal or more power and the ammo is cheaper? Sure, but most of the 9mm's are built on bigger, heavier .357 frames and cost more. There are pros and cons to 9mm and .38 in revolvers, but with the popularity of 9mm today I predict within 10 years 9mm revolvers will outsell .38 revolvers.

I mean, when you go to buy ammo right now, what are you seeing is more available and at better prices? 9 or .38?

Of course I see some repeating the same misinformation about 9mm Federal being discontinued because it could fit in .38 S&W chambered revolvers and I don't believe that to be the only reason it got dropped because Charter Arms was pushing that 9mm Federal and made a revolver for it and a few years after had financial issues and went out of business.

It doesn't help when the one small gun manufacturer who makes a gun in 9mm Federal goes belly up, so I wouldn't say the concept of rimmed auto cartridge like 9mm and .45 ACP (remember .45 Auto Rim?) is unpopular today because 30 years ago the 9mm Federal didn't take off.
 
74A95 said:
Whoa!

Even comparing the hottest loads, the 9mm is far short of a 357 Magnum.

9mm +P+
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=119
Buffalo Bore 124 +P+
➤ 1,304 fps -- Beretta 92F, 4.9-inch barrel
➤ 1,296 fps -- Glock 19, 4-inch barrel

357 Magnum
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=103
Buffalo Bore 125 JHP
4-inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1603 fps



I have a Ruger convertible Blackhawk 38/357 with a 9mm cylinder. The 9mm does not hold a candle to the 357 magnum. The 9mm is faster than 38 Special.
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Didn't you here from Federal Premium that velocity and energy foot pounds are irrelevant when it comes to self defense? It's all about expansion and penetration.
 
44 AMP said:
Just had a friend check when he visited the local gunshop. Top loaded .38 Special and 9mm JHPs are $1 to $1.50 apiece, depending on brands.
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And?

What about reloaders? What about those in L/E, which had a large push back to 9mm, who gets extra ammo from their agency?

Sometimes availability/cost in one person’s eyes is completely different than it is in someone else’s. Personally, my ammo stash has been hit hard since all this COVID crap started… and I feel 1,700 rounds of 9mm is quite low. But hopefully I can make up for it with the lack of shooting during the winter.

The rest of your post… no idea where that came from… but completely entitled to your own opinion. I shoot standard pressure in my 642-1… because I plan on shooting it for a while. It gives me the performance I want, so no real need to mess around with +P or higher.

TruthTellers said:
Of course I see some repeating the same misinformation about 9mm Federal being discontinued because it could fit in .38 S&W chambered revolvers and I don't believe that to be the only reason it got dropped because Charter Arms was pushing that 9mm Federal and made a revolver for it and a few years after had financial issues and went out of business.

It doesn't help when the one small gun manufacturer who makes a gun in 9mm Federal goes belly up, so I wouldn't say the concept of rimmed auto cartridge like 9mm and .45 ACP (remember .45 Auto Rim?) is unpopular today because 30 years ago the 9mm Federal didn't take off.
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Rimmed rounds based off auto rounds to fit in revolvers are not really a money making idea. It just allows those revolvers to run without moon clips.

But if you look at it, it was an offering designed to fail. .45 AutoRim and 9mm Federal may work fine in revolvers… but they don’t work in automatics. That is part of the fancy for some people with these type of revolvers… because they can buy ammo and it work in their revolver and their Glock. People tend to be cheap… can’t sugarcoat it any better.

The rounds, or better yet the casings, are awesome for those who reload, but it isn’t for everyone. When I do my addition, and have a gun room/area for reloading… am I going to have 9mm Federal and .45 AutoRim to load in my 642-1 and 1937 (respectfully)? Maybe to see how it works… but the moon clips aren’t going anywhere.
 
Screwball said:
And?

What about reloaders? What about those in L/E, which had a large push back to 9mm, who gets extra ammo from their agency?

Sometimes availability/cost in one person’s eyes is completely different than it is in someone else’s. Personally, my ammo stash has been hit hard since all this COVID crap started… and I feel 1,700 rounds of 9mm is quite low. But hopefully I can make up for it with the lack of shooting during the winter.

The rest of your post… no idea where that came from… but completely entitled to your own opinion. I shoot standard pressure in my 642-1… because I plan on shooting it for a while. It gives me the performance I want, so no real need to mess around with +P or higher.



Rimmed rounds based off auto rounds to fit in revolvers are not really a money making idea. It just allows those revolvers to run without moon clips.

But if you look at it, it was an offering designed to fail. .45 AutoRim and 9mm Federal may work fine in revolvers… but they don’t work in automatics. That is part of the fancy for some people with these type of revolvers… because they can buy ammo and it work in their revolver and their Glock. People tend to be cheap… can’t sugarcoat it any better.

The rounds, or better yet the casings, are awesome for those who reload, but it isn’t for everyone. When I do my addition, and have a gun room/area for reloading… am I going to have 9mm Federal and .45 AutoRim to load in my 642-1 and 1937 (respectfully)? Maybe to see how it works… but the moon clips aren’t going anywhere.
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It is a different deal for those who reload and those who don't. I personally don't reload 9mm, so the rimmed 9mm would be pointless for me, but a lot of people do reload 9mm and might find that rimmed 9 would be something they'd want to load for as the only difference on a press is a shellholder.

The .45 would be a completely different story, I would load a rimmed .45 ACP if someone made an aluminum frame snub with a cylinder the proper length for .45 ACP.

Don't get me started on rimmed 10mm Auto or 10mm Magnum.
 
Donald duck said:
The vast majority of 9mm rounds you will find in the shelf of your local gunshop is more powerful than the vast majority of .38 special loads you will find at your local gunshop. A +p 9mm is close to the power of a .357 and a +p+ 9mm is close enough that there is no real world difference.
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I don't know where you shop, but no local gun shop around me stocks 9mm +P in any quantity, and nothing approaching the power of .357 Magnum. I have never seen 9mm +P+ anywhere other than on-line, and not much even there.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
I have never seen 9mm +P+ anywhere other than on-line, and not much even there.
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Same… I got a few boxes of +P+ from the Oaks, PA gun show a few years back. Federal 115 grain JHP. Only time I’ve seen it in person.

+P… I used to see here/there prior to the COVID. I know I’ve seen it at Cabela’s, being I told myself that’s even more of a ridiculous price. [emoji1787] A few of the smaller shops between me and there (I’m about 3 hours north) would have different loads/calibers in +P.
 
Not just a niche market, they are basically for gun games.

S&W makes a few 38/357 revolvers just for gun games. 686s with 6 round chambers and not the 7, Pro Series with 6 round chambers, and cut for moon clips.

The 986 is the 686 Plus equivalent.

One thing I don't like, they keep the frame of the L or N and don't elongate the cylinder to match. It looks totally odd to have that huge gap.
 
Donald duck said:
I firmly believe the 9mm revolver makes much more sense than the .38 special. Regardless of what some people may believe the 9mn is a more powerful round than the .38. It's cheaper to shoot and you have the option to use the moon clips.
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We all are entitled to our opinion, just as we all have different needs and preferences. This is a prime example of both. As a reloader and one that also reloads and shoots .357, I find that cost of components is pretty equal between the 9mm and .357, with the advantage to me being I can use the same projectiles in my .38s as I do for my .357s. As such, I see little or no difference in power between a .38 and 9mm. My preference is accuracy and not top velocity. My loads for SD in my .38 snub are at the cusp between standard and +p. I would not want to shoot a +p+ from it. As for moon clips, if I really wanted to shoot 9mm, I would use the platform that makes better use of it.
 
i got tired of blistered fingers loading and unloading clips to my ruger speed six 9mm. i just keep it loaded and dont use it. its my bedside dust collector.
 
One thing about this discussion I find interesting, its centered almost entirely on small snub nose DA revolvers in 9mm Luger.

So, here's a point to ponder, IF a revolver in 9mm Luger is superior to one in .38 Special, where are all the 4" and 6" 9mm DA revolvers?

waits...listening to the crickets chirp........:rolleyes:

Seems they are pretty scarce on the ground, compared to multi millions of .38 Specials....

I get the idea of ammo commonality between your primary pistol and your backup gun, SO, that would be a plus for a 9mm snub nose revolver, if you carry a 9mm pistol.

I don't.

But I also wonder, if you carry a 9mm pistol WHY choose a revolver for a backup gun, at all?? Why not a smaller 9mm semi auto? Ammo capacity will be at least the same as a revolver, and usually more. You don't need extra "doo-hickey's" like moon clips and a tool for loading/unloading the same...

And, if your concern is about the semi auto backup gun jamming, then why are you carrying a semi auto as your primary arm??

Just some things to ponder...
 
44 AMP said:
One thing about this discussion I find interesting, its centered almost entirely on small snub nose DA revolvers in 9mm Luger.

So, here's a point to ponder, IF a revolver in 9mm Luger is superior to one in .38 Special, where are all the 4" and 6" 9mm DA revolvers?

waits...listening to the crickets chirp........:rolleyes:
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They're all in .357 Mag.
 
44 AMP said:
So, here's a point to ponder, IF a revolver in 9mm Luger is superior to one in .38 Special, where are all the 4" and 6" 9mm DA revolvers?

waits...listening to the crickets chirp........:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

here you go:
https://www.ruger.com/products/superGP100/specSheets/5066.html
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/model-986?sku=178055
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/model-929
https://www.chiappafirearms.com/product.php?id=696

And there are the convertable guns like the Taurus 692
https://www.taurususa.com/?view=art...-matte-stainless-6-50-in-ribber-grip&catid=60

And I see you've chosen to exclude the SA revolvers like the Ruger Blackhawk.

:rolleyes:


44 AMP said:
But I also wonder, if you carry a 9mm pistol WHY choose a revolver for a backup gun, at all?? Why not a smaller 9mm semi auto? Ammo capacity will be at least the same as a revolver, and usually more. You don't need extra "doo-hickey's" like moon clips and a tool for loading/unloading the same...

And, if your concern is about the semi auto backup gun jamming, then why are you carrying a semi auto as your primary arm??

Just some things to ponder...
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A lot of empty arguments there.

Caliber issues often come down to tradition. Take the 1911. Traditionally in 45 ACP. Yet, the 38 Super offers more power and more capacity. The 9mm offers the same power as the 45 in a barrel of the same length and more capacity. But try to convince someone they should get their 1911 in 38 Super or 9mm and hear them roar - hell no, the 1911 was built around the 45 and that's obviously why the 45 is better. . . .

Sometimes better cartridges are ignored. The 9X23 Winchester is an example. It has the same power as a 357 Mag and has 2 more rounds in a 1911 than a 45, but most people have never heard of it. A better cartridge ignored.

The 38 Special has been around in revolvers since forever - countless millions made. That's why they will still be made in that caliber forever. It's a capable cartridge, despite its shortcomings. So tradition will keep it alive and well for a long time.
 
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I have a 9mm cylinder for my Blackhawk, its coming into its own now that .38 and .357 are harder to find than 9 these days.
 
44 AMP said:
One thing about this discussion I find interesting, its centered almost entirely on small snub nose DA revolvers in 9mm Luger.

So, here's a point to ponder, IF a revolver in 9mm Luger is superior to one in .38 Special, where are all the 4" and 6" 9mm DA revolvers?

waits...listening to the crickets chirp........:rolleyes:

Seems they are pretty scarce on the ground, compared to multi millions of .38 Specials.…
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Why is it centered on snub revolvers? Probably because those that shoot it either carry it for compactness or are looking to gain an edge out of their .38 revolver.

I stated that switching to 9mm yielded me an extra 37 grains of bullet weight… with zero loss. I carry my 642-1 because it is about 14 ounces… I really don’t have an argument when I’m tired, or rushing out. And if I did… LCP in my pocket.

But if you are asking…

S&W doesn’t do a 4”… but how about 5” and 6.5”?

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/model-986?sku=178055

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/model-929?sku=170341

Rhino does 4”, 5”, and 6”… but since you specifically asked about 4” and 6”.

https://www.chiappafirearms.com/product.php?id=439

https://www.chiappafirearms.com/product.php?id=440

Comparing .38 revolvers to 9mm revolvers is also a bit of a stretch… since your millions were produced for the past 120+ years. .38 Special has been around since 1898… arming a lot of police officers and being pushed thru production in two World Wars and a few other conflicts. I won’t say a caliber designed in 1898 can’t do it’s job, but doesn’t mean it is perfect for 2021.

When did the 547 appear? Late 1970s? 9mm was designed as a semi-auto round, without a rim. The 9mm was designed in 1901… but it was designed as a semi-auto cartridge. For a good chunk of time, semi-autos we’re not as reliable as they are now. And let’s also remember that the revolvers/.38 Special/.357 Magnum were widely used in L/E… it takes a borderline act of god to get people in L/E to change. Acts of god? Newhall… Miami… North Hollywood… Hell, look at .40 and the about-face that was.

Bullet technology advanced pretty far over the past century. .38 and 9mm are both leaps/bounds better than they were in the beginning. But considering 9mm is the more popular of the two… you tend to see more variety/funding going into that caliber. It isn’t a one is better than the other… but ammo companies want to make money. Also, goes back to the L/E (and also the military)… being ammo contracts are good to pickup.

But your argument is the same as me saying where are all the .38 Special /.357 Magnum autoloaders? That Colt and S&W that used wadcutters… Desert Eagle… and the Coonan. Must be such a terrible round since there isn’t a Glock made in it.

44 AMP said:
I get the idea of ammo commonality between your primary pistol and your backup gun, SO, that would be a plus for a 9mm snub nose revolver, if you carry a 9mm pistol.

I don't.
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Some might want to have that ability… I personally don’t care about it. Main reason, my agency doesn’t let us carry a backup gun.

But whereas we were issued .40 a little over a year and a half ago… I knew the .40 was going bye-bye. The Glock contract was announced the week I signed on. But my off duty carry guns tend to be 9mm. Said it before, but any extra training/duty ammo will work in them. Nice thing is we use 147 grain, just like I prefer to carry.

44 AMP said:
But I also wonder, if you carry a 9mm pistol WHY choose a revolver for a backup gun, at all?? Why not a smaller 9mm semi auto? Ammo capacity will be at least the same as a revolver, and usually more. You don't need extra "doo-hickey's" like moon clips and a tool for loading/unloading the same...

And, if your concern is about the semi auto backup gun jamming, then why are you carrying a semi auto as your primary arm??

Just some things to ponder...
Click to expand...

I have 9mm autos that I carry… P938 is one that I want to get more rounds thru it before I carry. I just recently got a Glock P80 (retro one), which I plan to carry when I want a larger gun.

We carry Glock 19 Gen 5 MOS… and I’ll probably get a 26 Gen 5 in the future (just to have). Real goal is a 34 Gen 3, and maybe a LWD frame that takes Compact magazines and full sized slides. Would be a nice way to have the complete 9mm line… especially because I want non-railed 34. But I went with Glock magazines with my 9mm AR pistol, so it takes down to at least the 19 magazines (unsure about the 26). It is going to be a suppressor host, so will be nice to be able to shove in a duty magazine and not be super sonic.

It’s called having options, and carrying what I want to. I’ve said it a few times, but I don’t carry something to be cool or to get someone’s approval. 44 AMP, sorry… but I really couldn’t care less how you feel about X, Y, or Z. I do take other viewpoints, being sometimes you see things that you didn’t think of due to whatever reason. But just because you don’t like 9mm revolvers… it really isn’t going to change me carrying my 9mm 642-1.
 
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