9mm pistol vs 357 mag revolver

It makes me wonder if something like the .357 Sig is not the best of both worlds and perhaps the ideal cartridge. I don't own one myself, but it seems like a worthy thought.
If one needs the additional penetration and is willing to accept the disadvantages, it might be okay.

Most of us do not need to shoot through plate glass, but there may be people who could benefit from the additional penetration on animals.

Recoil and blast count against it, along with bullet setback when rechambering ammunition, and the cost of ammunition.

First, not all fights will occur at close range. For longer distances, you need the ability to bring precision.
One may encounter such a need, but those situations would be outliers.

Second, even at close range, the stress of a real situation will likely reduce what precision you have. So if you can do a 6" group on a quick draw, rapid fire string at seven yards on the range, you might only do a 12" group in a real situation where you are under fire. That's fine. But if you can only do a 12" group on the range, you might be doing 24" in a real situation, which means some rounds may miss altogether. I think there are many documented police shootings that bear this out.
I would not characterize seven yards as "close range". Consider that the seven yard mark was derived solely as an indicator for justifying the presentation of a firearm against an attacker armed with a contact weapon. The actual distance at the first moment of shooting for someone who can draw in a second in a half would be more like zero feet, if defender did not move.

I think it advisable to train at shorter distances--and at distances that vary

I would never invest time in attempting to place bullets within a six inch circle when practicing defensive shooting, even at fifteen feet. As Cunningham points out, that involves too much precision and not enough speed.
 
Shootist,
Again the gentleman stated in his test that using 9 mm ammo was not quite giving an accurate picture since both ball and HP ammo was used and hence his comparisons between 357 mag vs 9mm ammo was skewed. He was not talking about Winter/Spring/Summer or Fall weather clothing.

In my original post I stated " The 357 is a 125gr. HP and the 9mm is either a 124 gr hp or a 147 gr hp for comparison if this is possible." The if is the question.

This is my post and question and while I invited any remarks and answers,
I hope that my responders stay on topic.

I would like to say that Old Marksman has given excellent advice since I joined. I might argue with him, that's in my nature, but it's people like him that we novices "et al" learn. Thank you very much.
 
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Doc Holliday 1950 Shootist,
Again the gentleman stated in his test that using 9 mm ammo was not quite giving an accurate picture since both ball and HP ammo was used and hence his comparisons between 357 mag vs 9mm ammo was skewed. He was not talking about Winter/Spring/Summer or Fall weather clothing.

In my original post I stated " The 357 is a 125gr. HP and the 9mm is either a 124 gr hp or a 147 gr hp for comparison if this is possible." The if is the question.

This is my post and question and while I invited any remarks and answers,
I hope that my responders stay on topic.

I would like to say that Old Marksman has given excellent advice since I joined. I might argue with him, that's in my nature, but it's people like him that we novices "et al" learn. Thank you very much.
Yesterday 11:55 AM

How do you compare a 9mm 124 grain bullet at about 1250 maximum with a 125 grain 357 round at nearly 1450 fps?
The velocities are from the fastest loads listed in the Speer #13 manual.
My 357 shoots 140 grain bullets faster than 1460 so I would assume that the 125 would be faster than the listed velocities. I haven't chronographed my 9mm loads so I don't have real world data but you are comparing apples to oranges when trying to compare 9mm and 357. There simply is no comparison.
 
How do you compare a 9mm 124 grain bullet at about 1250 maximum with a 125 grain 357 round at nearly 1450 fps?
The velocities are from the fastest loads listed in the Speer #13 manual.
My 357 shoots 140 grain bullets faster than 1460 so I would assume that the 125 would be faster than the listed velocities. I haven't chronographed my 9mm loads so I don't have real world data but you are comparing apples to oranges when trying to compare 9mm and 357. There simply is no comparison.
The question may babe of academic interest to someone, but unless one has a reason to shoot through barriers such as plate glass or intends to use the firearm for the taking of game, the terminal ballistics simply will not matter as much as rate of controlled fire and capacity.
 
9ballbilly,
I have to agree. I own a nice 9mm but I bought it to compete in 3 gun and I have never considered it a carry weapon. My 357 has been my buddy for 40 years and I would feel bad leaving it at home.
 
I say unless you practice a lot (and I meal A whole LOT) the wheel gun is much easier to use. If a slide doesn't go bang you have to do several steps before it will fire. Secure mag, cycle action etc etc) but a wheel gun (double action) you just keep on pulling that trigger. Plain and simple
My two cents worth and worth about as much
 
One man's perspective. I own both, but to me they are just for two different things. It's the same problem I have when I go camping in the middle of nowhere. Do I bring a 44 magnum in case I run across a foul beast, or do I bring my 9 mm in case I run across a group of foul crackheads?

I own a Smith 686+, and I normally see myself carrying this 7 rounder with 4" barrel as my in between, the best of both worlds gun, when camping, with a full box of ammo. The 357 carries enough butt to be able to take on large game(especially when teamed with Tim's Buffolo Bore monsters) while also being somewhat controllable enough for self-defense.

However, I would be lying if I didn't say that their have been more than a few nights that I've heard voices in the distance and wondering what kind of crowd was gathering and wishing then I had my CZ 75 with 5- 16 round mags.

There will never be an answer to your question I hate to say, never ever ever, because it will always come down to personal preference. Stopping power? 357. Large amounts of ammo? 9 mm.

I look at your 357 vs 9mm question the same as my shotgun versus my AR. I just got done posting at another site when asked what was preferred for home defense. While always thinking shotguns had limitations, as the years go by I see myself starting to lean towards a nine shot Mossberg tactical with number one buck. Leaning, not fallen over yet.

So my answer was this. For one, maybe two, not three people for sure, the shotugn all the way. For multiple the AR hands-down. So to answer your specific question from my point of view, for one, maybe two people, the 357. For multiple, 9 mm. But only in the perfect world where one can forecast the type of attack. But since there is no such thing, my choice would be the 9 mm.

I grew up always hearing whatever gun you shoot best with, and shot placement was far more important the number of rounds. I always had a tendency to let that go in one ear and out the other. I mean it was good advice, but I just didn't think it had a place in reality because most people just don't take the time to shoot a couple thousand rounds so they can become proficient with their choice of weapon.

Today? I can tell you hands-down, I'll take one well placed round over 10 wildly shot rounds any day of the week and twice on Sundays. But that doesn't really address your question because you can shoot a well-placed round with the 16 mag 9 mm or a 2 round Derringer.

So when it's all said and done, in my own personal world, I have decided to choose the "more rounds the better" over "stopping power" and here's why for two reasons.

1) Even till this day, the experts will tell you, LEO will tell you, that no matter how good you shoot, in the heat of the battle, in the craziness of the moment, things never go as planned and all your training can suddenly get thrown out the window and next thing you know you're shooting less carefully sighted and placed shots, and more crazy hysterical shots. It's one thing to target shoot, it's another thing to shoot with bullets flying back at you. Based upon this and knowing that many of your bullets are going to miss its target entirely, I want back up bullets.

2) I think WAY too much weight has been placed on stopping power anyway. I mean way too much. Too many arguments, too many debates, too many friends made enemies over the subject. "A" bullet is very powerful and very damaging, regardless of the size.

I grow weary of this bullet is more powerful than that bullet, this bullet does this in gel tests, that bullet does this to a piece of meat hanging from a rope, or a watermelon sitting on a post. That's just what caliber. Now factor in the weight, the velocity, hollow point versus full metal jacket. It's starting to all become blah blah blah to me.

Tired of reading how the 380 auto is not ample, and how people act as if those who use it are no better off than shooting someone with a paperclip and a rubber band, when every single day people get shot with it and lay dead from it.

It's a GUN. It's a BULLET. It can KILL. Leave it at that.

Talk to ANY individual who's actually been shot and they will tell you that bullets hurt and hurt bad. I'm not saying to run out and buy a 22, even though there have been tons of deaths attributed to a 22, as well as being the caliber of choice for professional hitman. I'm just saying they are carried and can kill just as good as a 44 magnum. Or go into any crime ridden area and you'll see lots and lots of lots of people carrying and lots of people being killed by 25 auto!

What I am saying is ALL calibers are good to go, because it's not the caliber that kills, it's the placement of that caliber that kills. And the odds of everything working out like you think, the odds of you putting a bullet where you would like to put it, are probably slim and none.

22, 25, 32, 380, 38, 9 mm, 357, 40, 45, 44, take your pick. THEY ALL KILL WHEN THE BULLET HITS WHERE IT NEEDS TO HIT. So I carry more bullets to increase the chances of hitting where it needs to hit.

Answer? 9 MM with high-capacity mags over a 357 for home defense. And lately I just bring both guns for camping :)
 
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It makes me wonder if something like the .357 Sig is not the best of both worlds and perhaps the ideal cartridge.

This popped into my head as soon as I started reading the thread. The .357 Sig uses a 9mm projectile and was specifically designed to emulate that popular 125-grain load in .357 magnum. Whether or not that iconic round lives up to its legend, I definitely get the excitement over replicating it in a high capacity semi-auto that's easy to handle.

If you don't like the few models currently being offered in .357 Sig, you can get conversion barrels for a lot of existing guns in .40 S&W. This will put it on a platform you already like and at a fraction of the cost.
 
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. This popped into my head as soon as I started the thread.

I thought Doc Holliday started the thread? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I'm new and I just want to make sure I'm not missing something with how the threads work :)
 
I edited my previous post to fix this. I just meant to say that .357 Sig was an obvious suggestion based on the initial comparisons in this thread.
 
I'd take a Glock 19 over a 357 Mag revolver for carry or HD.
IMO the 19 would have less felt recoil allowing quicker follow up shots.
Obvious capacity advantage for Glock 19.

357 Sig was mentioned in terms of penetration, with JHP its not over-penetrative.

125 HST @ 1,375 fps: 13.25'' penetration / .59
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kLkpIljrNA

125 Gold Dot @ 1,336 fps: 14.5'' penetration / .57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5FOFnJVS0E

May as well provide my chrono data too:
Glock 19
Federal HST 124 gr. +P @ 1,210 fps / 403# KE
Federal HST 147 gr +P @ 1,044 fps / 356# KE
Glock 32
Speer Gold Dot 125 gr. @ 1,344 fps / 501# KE
Federal HST 125 gr. @ 1,358 fps / 512# KE
 
22, 25, 32, 380, 38, 9 mm, 357, 40, 45, 44, take your pick. THEY ALL KILL WHEN THE BULLET HITS WHERE IT NEEDS TO HIT.
Of course, killing is not the objective. Stopping requires two things: (1) hitting in the right places and at the right angles and (2) adequate penetration. Some of those rounds fall short in terms of the latter, and others make the former less likely.

So I carry more bullets to increase the chances of hitting where it needs to hit.
The number is an important factor. So is the speed of controlled fire.
 
About the 357 Sig - this is a point made before by me and others. You need to see how well you shoot the round.

Anecdote: In an intensive handgun class, a person had a new Glock in 357 Sig, having read the stopping power prose. Had a heck of a time shooting at small steel plates in a timed drill. Slow and misses.

The person was given a 9mm Glock and performance increased dramatically. Now, one anecdote isn't quite the reseach design but basing decisions on the stopping power physics without trying and practicing is common among the gun conversations but not as useful as practice.
 
Ditto what Glenn just said. In addition, not everyone shoots revolvers as well as autoloaders, although some shoot them better.

I have been shooting for a good many years now and regularly shoot .22lr, 9mm Luger, .40 S&W, 357 SIG, and .45 ACP pistols, as well as a Ruger GP100 in 38 Special/357 Magnum.

I am still impressed by how much more easily I can control the recoil of autoloaders even in the larger calibers and higher velocities, compared to shooting full 357 Magnum loads, even out of the big GP100. Despite years of trying, I simply can't shoot 357 Magnum as well as I would like to.

If you are absolutely convinced that you can shoot 357 Magnum as quickly and accurately as 9mm Luger, than looking at the relative terminal ballistics and capacity makes sense., otherwise those considerations are irrelevant.
 
So.....the answer is for a person to choose to carry what he/she can shoot well and not get caught up in what other people think is the bee's knees?......
 
I think we all had a good run on this
question. Since 1970, I've only had
357 mags. until recently when I bought
my first Semi. I thought I was a damn
Good shot, accurate & fast.This changed
when I got my Glock. I am a better shot
And more accurate and moreover
quicker. The expert quotes on Ammo
speed, penetration & "stopping"
power we're important. But the most
important answer was "What do you
Shoot the best.It really
is as simple as this. I went to my range
and timed my shots at 5,7 & 10 yds.
First with my SP 101 2.5" 357, then
my GP 100 4" 357 and finally my
9mm Glock. I did this on 3 different
days. The Glock was best on all 3 days.
 
About the 357 Sig - this is a point made before by me and others. You need to see how well you shoot the round.

Anecdote: In an intensive handgun class, a person had a new Glock in 357 Sig, having read the stopping power prose. Had a heck of a time shooting at small steel plates in a timed drill. Slow and misses.

The person was given a 9mm Glock and performance increased dramatically. Now, one anecdote isn't quite the reseach design but basing decisions on the stopping power physics without trying and practicing is common among the gun conversations but not as useful as practice.

While "new" is certainly a factor in that case, it would only be exaggerating the basic effect. Guns that kick harder tend to be harder to control. The shooter in Glenn's anecdote might have had similar results with .40 S&W versus 9mm, .357 magnum versus .38 special, or even 9mm versus .22 LR. We can train to mitigate the effect of recoil but it will always be there. It comes down to finding the right balance for the individual. I think trying out these different options and 'seeing how well we shoot them' is more than just sound advice. It's a lot of fun!
 
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