This is not a 9mm put down guys,ok. All right here we go as some of you know i bought a ruger P 95 a few days ago and want to start using it as a ccw gun. What is a good hollow point for these guns? Should i go standard velocity or +P? This may sound stupid but i am a big bore fan hence my handle. Namely the 45acp. Anyway i am tring to feel confident about using the 9mm for defense. Iam confused here,many people say harsh things about the 9mm,like not enough stopping power,etc,etc..... What do you all think? I have never owned a 9mm gun till now,so have no experiance with the cartridge itself.It seems that most people say that all handguns are underpowered for stopping human beings. Is this true? Also i read that Isreali comandos carry Browning Hi Powers cocked and UNLOCKED when dealing with hostage situations. Using hardball to boot! So help me here guys. Thanks, 45automan
9mm good for defense???
- Thread starter 45automan
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Not just good, but excellent.
I prefer the standard velocity loadings in either a 115 grain or 124 grain hollow point.
I like the Remington Golden Sabres and Speer Gold Dots best.
The Ruger will certainly handle a steady diet of +P loads, if you think they're necessary.
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Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
I prefer the standard velocity loadings in either a 115 grain or 124 grain hollow point.
I like the Remington Golden Sabres and Speer Gold Dots best.
The Ruger will certainly handle a steady diet of +P loads, if you think they're necessary.
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Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
When you start to look at the best loads in each caliber, you begin to see that they're almost identical in terminal performance (ability to penetrate, expand, and otherwise wound a violent threat) -- see chart:
<A HREF="http://www.greent.com/40Page/" TARGET=_blank>
</A>
The 9mm versions on most "premium" loads are very close and sometimes superior to the .40S&W and .45ACP versions. It's all about bullet design, not bullet weight or velocity.
The problem is that while there are few "bad" loads in the other calibers, there are tons of "bad" 9mm defensive choices out there. Many rounds either fail to expand or fail to penetrate, or both. Most of the super-fast stuff from places like Corbon and Triton simply fragments, creating a shallow wound.
So for 9mm, load selection becomes paramount. But once you choose a good load, it works just like a good load in .40S&W, .45ACP, or any of those other calibers. Sure, it's not as heavy as the heavy bullets, and it's not as fast as the fastest bullets. But if it penetrates the same, expands the same, and disrupts tissue the same, who cares?
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
By the way, I also cast my vote for Golden Saber -- although I've [Link to invalid post] that Gold Dots are better.
<A HREF="http://www.greent.com/40Page/" TARGET=_blank>
The 9mm versions on most "premium" loads are very close and sometimes superior to the .40S&W and .45ACP versions. It's all about bullet design, not bullet weight or velocity.
The problem is that while there are few "bad" loads in the other calibers, there are tons of "bad" 9mm defensive choices out there. Many rounds either fail to expand or fail to penetrate, or both. Most of the super-fast stuff from places like Corbon and Triton simply fragments, creating a shallow wound.
So for 9mm, load selection becomes paramount. But once you choose a good load, it works just like a good load in .40S&W, .45ACP, or any of those other calibers. Sure, it's not as heavy as the heavy bullets, and it's not as fast as the fastest bullets. But if it penetrates the same, expands the same, and disrupts tissue the same, who cares?
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
By the way, I also cast my vote for Golden Saber -- although I've [Link to invalid post] that Gold Dots are better.
45automan,
Svc. caliber handguns are underpowered, any person going into harms way that has any knowledge of weapons, & heads up on the situation would select an appropriate shoulder weapon if possible. That being said, shot placement is the name of the game.
The 40/45/357 sig ect...are slightly more powerful than the 9mm. However, the 9mm is plenty effective in it's top loads.
I believe some of the debate between the 9mm & other calibers stems from the fact that there are so many bad 9mm loads when compared w/ load selection in the other calibers. I prefer the +p or +p+ loads, but there are some good std. pressure loads as well.
Here are (5) of my preferred loads for my G19:
Federal 124gr+p+ Hydra-Shok
Triton 125gr or 135gr+p Hi-Vel
Remington Golden Sabre 124gr+p
Federal 115gr+p+ (9bple)
Speer 124gr+p Gold Dot
Make sure whatever load you choose functions reliably in your P95.
Select a good load & practice to do your part, & the 9mm will serve you well!
Good Shootin'
{long shot}
Svc. caliber handguns are underpowered, any person going into harms way that has any knowledge of weapons, & heads up on the situation would select an appropriate shoulder weapon if possible. That being said, shot placement is the name of the game.
The 40/45/357 sig ect...are slightly more powerful than the 9mm. However, the 9mm is plenty effective in it's top loads.
I believe some of the debate between the 9mm & other calibers stems from the fact that there are so many bad 9mm loads when compared w/ load selection in the other calibers. I prefer the +p or +p+ loads, but there are some good std. pressure loads as well.
Here are (5) of my preferred loads for my G19:
Federal 124gr+p+ Hydra-Shok
Triton 125gr or 135gr+p Hi-Vel
Remington Golden Sabre 124gr+p
Federal 115gr+p+ (9bple)
Speer 124gr+p Gold Dot
Make sure whatever load you choose functions reliably in your P95.
Select a good load & practice to do your part, & the 9mm will serve you well!
Good Shootin'
{long shot}
I don't feel underpowered with a 9mm. Charts and graphs aside, it's a nicely balanced round with good stopping power and somewhat mild recoil. If you're worried about the mythical "one shot stop" the answer is simple, shoot 'em twice. And when you're talking about placing multiple shots accurately, recoil and blast definitely enter the picture.
I'd go with the 115 gr +P stuff, CORBON or Federal (if they still make it) but that's just me. I figure that the stuff that comes screamin' out the end of the barrel has a better chance of expanding. The 124 gr. Hydra-Shok is supposed to be the latest and greatest, but I think you give up 200 fps velocity (don't qoute me, I'm going from memory).
Even with military hardball you're not "outgunned" unless you can't hit vitals. And if you can't hit vitals, all the "wonder ammo" in the world is of little use anyway.
I'd go with the 115 gr +P stuff, CORBON or Federal (if they still make it) but that's just me. I figure that the stuff that comes screamin' out the end of the barrel has a better chance of expanding. The 124 gr. Hydra-Shok is supposed to be the latest and greatest, but I think you give up 200 fps velocity (don't qoute me, I'm going from memory).
Even with military hardball you're not "outgunned" unless you can't hit vitals. And if you can't hit vitals, all the "wonder ammo" in the world is of little use anyway.
Fud, I to enjoyed the 9mm advocacy article from calibers, it's an excellent source of info to make your point.
As far as golden sabre vs gold dot, I prefer the gs. Reason being, it expands better through cloth.
I agree for the most part about triton & corbon. However, I do like triton's hi-vel line in the heavier bullet weights, ie: 125/135gr loads. It's a conventional hp, not a controlled separation design like the quik-shok.
According to Fernando himself, penetration through heavy cloth is as follows: 125gr hv(14-in)& 135gr hv(16-in). He did not list expanded diameter's. However, judging from pictures I've seen, articles, & posts I've read on various forums, it expands very well.
I like the 124gr weight the best, the only exceptions are the 135gr hi-vel, & the 115gr +p+ fed. 9bple load, which I use for carry mostly in the warmer months. My favorite load is the 124gr +p+ hs, which I believe is the load listed in the performance comparison chart.
Best to all!
{long shot}
As far as golden sabre vs gold dot, I prefer the gs. Reason being, it expands better through cloth.
I agree for the most part about triton & corbon. However, I do like triton's hi-vel line in the heavier bullet weights, ie: 125/135gr loads. It's a conventional hp, not a controlled separation design like the quik-shok.
According to Fernando himself, penetration through heavy cloth is as follows: 125gr hv(14-in)& 135gr hv(16-in). He did not list expanded diameter's. However, judging from pictures I've seen, articles, & posts I've read on various forums, it expands very well.
I like the 124gr weight the best, the only exceptions are the 135gr hi-vel, & the 115gr +p+ fed. 9bple load, which I use for carry mostly in the warmer months. My favorite load is the 124gr +p+ hs, which I believe is the load listed in the performance comparison chart.
Best to all!
{long shot}
45automan, why would you choose a full size 9x19mm for concealed carry if you feel more comfortable with the larger calibers? Don't misunderstand me, I would most likely carry a 9mm auto for defense myself. However, I am comfortable with the nine's "wounding potential" and feel most secure when there are a dozen or so hollowpoints in the mag. (Maybe it's from watching too many Arnold Schwarzenegger movies or playing countless video games like Doom.) But if YOU feel most confident with the bigger/heavier 45ACP slugs, then that is what I recommend YOU carry. I believe people base their decisions more on emotion than most care to admit.
Mike Irwin
Staff
FUD, that chart is a little misleading, as the Federal Hydrakshok +P+ loadings in 9mm are generally NOT available for public sale. They are normally only sold to police.
That said, I carry either 124-gr. HS +P or Remington Golden Sabre in my 9s.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
That said, I carry either 124-gr. HS +P or Remington Golden Sabre in my 9s.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
William R. Wilburn
New member
FUD
Da...uh, err, Darn nice post!
Great charts and a link.
Nicely done.
I appreciate your skills.
William
Da...uh, err, Darn nice post!
Great charts and a link.
Nicely done.
I appreciate your skills.
William
I reload a dozen pistol calibers, but I have been thinking that 9mm may be the most firepower per carry. I loaded up some +P+ loads and they kick about as hard as I can take and still get back on target fast.
I have seen someone else that can rapid fire my 44mag full house loads. For me, 9mm +P+ is the upper limit of rapid fire.
I have seen someone else that can rapid fire my 44mag full house loads. For me, 9mm +P+ is the upper limit of rapid fire.
Nothing wrong with 9mm.
I have a few 9's and depending on the gun I use different loads.
In my Firestarplus alloy frame gun I carry the silvertip because it's a standard pressure round and don't really eant to beat the gun up to badly. In my Hi power or TZ-75 I carry the Speer gold dot 124 +P.
I wouldn't feel to badly about a 9mm, History has plenty of cases of 9mm effectivness.
Besides, since the liberal media is always so fond of pointing out how the gang banger or guy who shot up the school had a 9mm handgun it just proves how evil the 9 is!
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I have a few 9's and depending on the gun I use different loads.
In my Firestarplus alloy frame gun I carry the silvertip because it's a standard pressure round and don't really eant to beat the gun up to badly. In my Hi power or TZ-75 I carry the Speer gold dot 124 +P.
I wouldn't feel to badly about a 9mm, History has plenty of cases of 9mm effectivness.
Besides, since the liberal media is always so fond of pointing out how the gang banger or guy who shot up the school had a 9mm handgun it just proves how evil the 9 is!
------------------
www.customholsters.com
M/D ENTERPRISES Custom Concealment Holsters
Gunleather so nice it's almost a crime to conceal it
mde@customholsters.com
100% satisfaction or I buy it back!
"Holsters" the only real cure for mad cow disease
VictorLouis
New member
It would appear as though spotty expansion is no longer an issue, with the new Fed. EFMJ ammo. I think this has serious merit for the home defense HG, primarily, with CCW promise too. There's another thread here recently praising its accuracy and relatively low recoil in comparison with other the other 9mm loads.
Mike Irwin,
One can purchase the Fed. 124gr+p+ HS and Fed. 115gr+p+ (9bple) from Bluegrass Armory,(www.bgarmory.com). Most states do not prohibit it's use by civilians.
Also, you state you carry 124gr(+p)HS not +p+, where did you find this load? I have only heard of the standard 124gr & 124+p+ loads, please clarify.
{long shot}
One can purchase the Fed. 124gr+p+ HS and Fed. 115gr+p+ (9bple) from Bluegrass Armory,(www.bgarmory.com). Most states do not prohibit it's use by civilians.
Also, you state you carry 124gr(+p)HS not +p+, where did you find this load? I have only heard of the standard 124gr & 124+p+ loads, please clarify.
{long shot}
Mike Irwin
Staff
Longshot,
My point about the +P+ is that it is not a generally available round as the other ones are. You can't walk into your run of the mill gunshop or sporting goods store and find that particular Federal round. It can be had, but it is harder to procure and LESS likely to be found than any of the other rounds.
As for my Federal carry 9mm, you're correct, it's the standard 124-gr. loading, NOT +P. My bad. I guess I was just getting into the swing of things.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
My point about the +P+ is that it is not a generally available round as the other ones are. You can't walk into your run of the mill gunshop or sporting goods store and find that particular Federal round. It can be had, but it is harder to procure and LESS likely to be found than any of the other rounds.
As for my Federal carry 9mm, you're correct, it's the standard 124-gr. loading, NOT +P. My bad. I guess I was just getting into the swing of things.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
Claemore70
Moderator
Excellent posts! I've always been a 9mm fan, but thought I was a dying breed. Thanks y'all!
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"Vote with a Bullet."
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"Vote with a Bullet."
Mike, maybe I didn't make this clear ... I was trying to demonstrate that if you look at the performance of the BEST loads (not the most COMMON loads) in each caliber, they function about the same -- they penetrate the same, expand the same, and disrupt tissue the same. I did not toss in the Winchester Ranger round into the chart because that ammo is LEO only.
William R. Wilburn, thank you for the kind words -- it's nice to know that the info I research & provide is appreciated.
Regards, FUD.
William R. Wilburn, thank you for the kind words -- it's nice to know that the info I research & provide is appreciated.
Regards, FUD.
As far as what will work in a Ruger P95, after taking NRA Personal Protection, I got a box of Federal HydraShok (the box says "lower recoil" so I'm guessing these aren't the +P+ rounds, the box says 1050fps muzzle velocity, 135gr) rounds, and took 'em to the range and shot 'em through my P95. No troubles. I've had my P95 for a couple years, shot about 600 rds thru it, no troubles, shot great right out of the box.
Hey, what kind of holster would you carry your P95 in? Seems to me the P95 is too big to be a good concealed gun.
[This message has been edited by AER (edited July 27, 2000).]
Hey, what kind of holster would you carry your P95 in? Seems to me the P95 is too big to be a good concealed gun.
[This message has been edited by AER (edited July 27, 2000).]
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