9mm Final Four

Give the Steyr M9 some consideration. About the same size as the Glock 19 but with a better grip/grip angle and much better trigger. The pull is shorter and much crisper. The only downsides are the 10 round capacity compared to the 15 for the G19 and the pyramid sites. I hated them so I purchased a set of PT Nightsights. Mine has been 100% reliable and it is easy and fun to shoot. Good luck with whatever you chose.

Regards,
Frank
 
Personally, I don't think you can go wrong with either any of your choices. I personally like the Sign and the HK. The HK have the advantage of the fact you don't have to learn a new manual of arms to operate it since you already have 3 of them. I personally feel the Sig is erogonmically very nice. Good luck
 
Hey everyone! Thanks so far for all your opinions. According to the DOJ list, the Sig 229 9mm is now on the list. That bumps the P239 out of the four. Anyone have comments on this. Whats up with all that stuff I hear about Sigs frame cracking and wearing prematurely? Does that apply to the 229?
Originally, I really wanted to look into the 229 but since it was not one the list for the 9mm at the time, I did not do any research on it at all. Now, its a new story and I got another to think about.
ST
 
HKUSP45C,

Any Sig aluminum alloy frame can crack and / or experience fatigue prematurely. My P239 is still going strong; however, my Sig P228 has a frame heirline crack and frame gouging with less than 7000 rounds! The Sig P229 is justs as vulnerable (unless you buy the Sport model). Considering the price of Sigs, I consider such a performance a POS. Do NOT buy an alluminum alloy sig if you are going to shoot it a lot. The stainless steel Sigs (Sport models) will last a lot longer IMO.
 
Sigs are a great choice...:)

HK,
Remember...Thats just Quantums one opinion...229's are awesome and any Sig for that matter....By the way...between me and my friends,I never seen any frame gouging....
 
As much as like the P99 have to pick the P229. Not the least of reasons being Sigs excellent Customer Service, warranty & 'Smithing in own experience. FWIW, have had a G19 and a full sz. USP40.
 
If 8 rounds isn't enough, then you aren't talking about a defensive pistol, IMO. More is fine if that's what the gun you want (and are comfortable with) carries, but that should NOT be the deciding factor.

I would put the P239 back in your list. The difference in bulk between it and the P229 is considerable, and since the average defensive shooting involves 2-3 shots I suspect you don't really need 13 or 15 rounds in your carry gun. That's your call, though. I owned a P239 for about three years (and 7,000 rounds), and won't say a bad thing about them. Most accurate small pistol I have ever handled. I used to shoot circles around guys with target pistols using that little beauty. I still wonder to this day if I did the right thing when I sold it.

I used the funds from my P239 to buy a G19. The deciding thing for me? Trigger pull. Every time I squeeze the trigger on either of my Glocks, it's a crisp 3.5 pounds of pull. The other three you mentioned have fairly stout double actions for first shots, followed by 2-3 pound single actions thereafter. I got to where I didn't really like that, and I went to Glocks almost solely for that reason. That, and the fact that you just can't kill a Glock.

Here's the bottom line: All of the firearms you mentioned are fine pieces of work, and any of them will do the job. You need to shoot them all at a range (rental or a friend's) and see which of them fits your hand the best and which feels best when you squeeze the trigger. All of them are going to feel VERY different (at least they did to me), both before, during, and after the trigger pull. Figure out which one suits you the best and go with it.
 
go with the Walther P99, my frist 9mm was the Walther and i have put 400-rounds in to, and it has been reliabel:)
 
Went to the range today again. This time, I borrowed a friend's Glock 19, and rented the Walther P99 and Sig 229. I didn't need to rent the USP9c because I familiar with how they shoot. First off, I will have to rule out the Glock (sorry Glock fans) because it just didn't feel right. I ended up coming home stuck with a tough decision. Its either the P229 or the P99. Here is what I think about them so far.

Sig 229
Goods: Good DA and SA. Accurate. Felt good in the hands, had good sights, mild recoil.
Bads: Grip angle was awkward at first but got used to it pretty fast. Guide rod and recoil spring looks like something you can find in a hardware store. Concerned about all the issues I here about rusting, premature wearing, weak frame, "short life span", high maintanence,..
High Price

Walther P99
Goods: Ok DA, excellent SA. Accurate. Good feel, a tad more recoil than 229. Tenifer. Better price than 229 and maybe a longer "life span"?
Bads: Sights, Polymer guide rod. Stuff I hear about "teething problems" (whatever that is), ammo sensitive, ..

As you can see, its a tough decision. Though they are different, they shot great. I like the Sig a little better but I plan to shoot this 9mm alot and if all that stuff bad I hear about Sigs is true, then that may make me reconsider.
ST
 
As you can see, its a tough decision. Though they are different, they shot great. I like the Sig a little better but I plan to shoot this 9mm alot and if all that stuff bad I hear about Sigs is true, then that may make me reconsider.

In fairness to Sigs, the majority of owners are luckier than I am (and don't get the premature frame battering). My Sig 239 actually has more rounds than my (heiline cracked) 228 so it is a hit and miss deal with Sig I guess. Having said that, IMO no quality pistol should wear out as early as my 228 did. I am going to write Sig and see what they say could have caused the 228's wear. Yes, it is still safe to shoot but I can't say I am comfortable knowing there is already frame damage. I suggest buying a stainless steel model Sig (229 Sport for example) if you are going to go the Sig route so that you will have peace of mind. Else, get the HK or a CZ 75 compact.
 
I'm no expert on manufacturing, but this is what I recall from the engineering courses I have taken. "Teething problems" are the initial "bugs" that many new firearms and other products entering the market have. Despite a manufacturer's attempts to thoroughly test the design of a new product, minor and occasionally major issues (remember the Corvair?) arise when the product is first sold to the public and receives much more use and sometimes abuse than had occurred in testing. The manufacturer then responds to (or in some cases simply denies) the concerns and through this process, similar to the painful teething of a child, the product evolves into a more reliable good (or the manufacturer quietly concedes that the design is indeed flawed and slowly discontinues the product.)

In the case of the P99, three of the “teething” problems that I have read about involve trigger problems, frame cracks, and ammo sensitivity. The trigger problems were present in the very early models, were smoothed out in later versions, or so I have read by those who own both initial and late model P99s. Despite this I found that by relubing the striker and trigger pivot pin, my P99 trigger became noticeably smoother.

As for frame cracks, I read that some were due to molding problems, and others were simply seams in the molding process. Personally, I have never seen a cracked frame on a polymer gun period. (Except for the plastic guns I had as a child, which often met an earlier death, playing “war” on the nearby hills) So I am of little help here. I recommend calling Earl’s Repair Shop ( http://www.waltherusa.net/ )(978-851-2656), for they have been very helpful in answering any questions I have had about the P99.

Finally, ammo sensitivity: a phrase that struck fear in me when I had first ordered my P99 and read about the problem on the web. Early models of the P99 were designed to shoot 124gr ammo, which is slightly more powerful than the cheap 115gr that many use for target practice. As a result earlier P99 would have problems with the slide not fully cycling with ammo such as 115gr Winchester White Box. Thus to counter this problem, Interarms (at the time Walther’s US importer) released a “red dot” spring that was slightly lighter than the original so that 115gr would cycle better. Somewhere along the line though, it is my understanding that Walther began using a different spring rate that is a compromise of the original spring and “red dot” spring, and thus allows more of a wide range of ammo to be used. As I have said before, my fairly recent P99, has performed reliably despite the #@$% ammo I have fed through it.

So based on this it is my understanding that many of the initial “teething” problems have been rectified. As for your other concerns, they may or may not still remain. As for the polymer guide rod, I don’t care for it either, but it does work, and it is under less stress than many other plastic items used by society. Who knows, someday, maybe entire guns will be made of plastic, although it would have to be stronger than that plastic which we have today. As for the sights, personally, I like them, they are easy to adjust, and allow me to hit the target. What is it you don’t like about them?
 
No brainer....get the HK or change your name!!!
I would go with the P7 personally but once you
have one you will want another....
The only reason I shoot the anemic 9mm is because
of the P7...
If you have a chance to shoot the P7 you will
want one....
 
That's just your opinion...

"Do NOT buy an alluminum alloy sig if you are going to shoot it a lot." -- QS

...and nonsense to boot. If you have a damaged SIG [did you buy it new?], send it back to SIGARMS for a new frame.

I don't understand why you think your experience with one pistol should be used to condemn an entire segment of a company's product line.
 
That's just your opinion...
"Do NOT buy an alluminum alloy sig if you are going to shoot it a lot." -- QS

...and nonsense to boot. If you have a damaged SIG [did you buy it new?], send it back to SIGARMS for a new frame.

I don't understand why you think your experience with one pistol should be used to condemn an entire segment of a company's product line.

Your right, it is just my opinion. However, lets clear one thing up: I did not condemn an entire product line. I simply cautioned the gentleman about my experience with alloy Sigs. Personally I do like Sigs (don't love them though). Having said that, I will happily buy the new stainless steel frame 220 when it comes out, but no more alloy Sigs for me.
 
To QuantumSingularity,

I don't blame you, if that happened to my P229 I'd be a little more than disappointed too. But if I listened to all the horror stories posted on TFL there wouldn't be a single gun I could trust.

These things are machines and they don't always meet our expectations. But the majority of them do.
 
To QuantumSingularity,

I don't blame you, if that happened to my P229 I'd be a little more than disappointed too. But if I listened to all the horror stories posted on TFL there wouldn't be a single gun I could trust.

These things are machines and they don't always meet our expectations. But the majority of them do.

Thanks for your understanding! ;)
 
If you do not mind the order of arms--the HK P7 is the sweetest pistol I have ever fired. I am not an old grizzled expert but I have shot a fair number and that little pistol is the bees knees.
 
I too live in Kalifornia, Orange County and I
got my 2 P7's before the end of last year..
You can still buy the P7 in Kali if you purchase
it from a private party and you both are present
at an FFL dealer...
I still can't decide which I like better my
MK23 or my P7...
 
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