9mm, 9mm +p
- Thread starter chrisintexas
- Start date
Cosmodragoon
New member
I enjoy my .357 revolvers but I just don't get around to carrying them anymore. Comparing full-size guns, the .357 Sig seems more portable with more capacity. For smaller guns, especially in the category where .357 magnum can be a tad brutal to shoot, I've fallen in love with .327 Federal. (I'm happy with six rounds, reasonable recoil, and over 1200 fps from a pocket gun.)
I've never tried .357 AMP but I've got to be careful with new and exciting things. I just got in over my head with flashlights over in the gear forum...
I've never tried .357 AMP but I've got to be careful with new and exciting things. I just got in over my head with flashlights over in the gear forum...
sigarms228
New member
I use Federal HST +P 147 9MM for my self defense ammo and regular ammo for range use. I find the Federal HST +P 147 9MM pleasant to shoot even in my HST and will take any advantage I can get for a potential self defense situation.
As always one should try out whatever ammo they are considering and then choose what works best for them.
As always one should try out whatever ammo they are considering and then choose what works best for them.
If the purpose of the ammo is for self defense, I don't see why someone wouldn't use +p in 9mm? If you are using hollowpoints, then you want that hollowpoint to expand. An increase in velocity increases the likelihood it expands and would tend to result in greater expansion when it does.
The only reason not to would be the gun isn't rated for it. As for wear and tear on the gun, the simple solution is to practice mostly with none +p ammo, which I assumed everybody did anyway.
I prefer .40 personally for the simple reason bigger hole means more tissue damage and pain inflicted. I don't want to inflict more pain because im sadistic, but because if I take the drastic step of shooting someone, that person is trying to kill me and id like to deter them from continuing to try to kill me as quickly as possible. Anyone who doubts a bigger hole causes more pain has probably never had a 14 gauge IV started in them.
The only reason not to would be the gun isn't rated for it. As for wear and tear on the gun, the simple solution is to practice mostly with none +p ammo, which I assumed everybody did anyway.
I prefer .40 personally for the simple reason bigger hole means more tissue damage and pain inflicted. I don't want to inflict more pain because im sadistic, but because if I take the drastic step of shooting someone, that person is trying to kill me and id like to deter them from continuing to try to kill me as quickly as possible. Anyone who doubts a bigger hole causes more pain has probably never had a 14 gauge IV started in them.
Cosmodragoon
New member
You are right about velocity helping to ensure expansion. However, ammo construction has come a long way and 9mm isn't as dicey as the .380 or .38 special so many people rely upon for defense. There are standard pressure rounds that perform adequately in gel, though gel isn't necessarily the best analog for dangerous people or animals. There is a nice chart of defense ammo gel tests over at Lucky Gunner if anyone is interested:
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests
As far as other tests, Paul Harrell and others on YouTube have started doing "meat target" testing and this is an interesting trend.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6QH13V2o68zynSa0hZy9uQ
While not always budget friendly, there is something to be said for practicing with what you count on for self defense. I know, people often respond that "you'll never feel it in a real stress situation" but there's a lot that changes--practically, psychologically, and physiologically--in those situations. There may be some value in keeping what you can the same.
Most of my shooting is plinking with cheap target ammo. However, I do make it a point to get out and do some higher-stress practice and drills with my carry ammo and it's just enough that I really don't want the extra wear and tear.
The .40 is bigger and heavier than 9mm while the .357 Sig is faster. I feel like both are good answers to any concern about 9mm, and I prefer either to pushing the century-old 9mm to its limits. That said, I do still carry 9mm on a semi-regular basis and it's usually standard pressure 124-grain HST. I've been shooting more .40 and may switch when colder weather hits, but I'm staring down the barrel of a new shoulder-holster investment before I do. (I spend a lot of time on the road.)
Onward Allusion
New member
Recommend for target, plinking, or practice - waste of money, duh. For self-defense, as long as the added recoil doesn't bother you, sure, why not?
I'm not taking anything away from the 357 Sig.Its SAAMI max pressure is 40,000 psi. Standard 9mm and 40 S+W are 35,000,9mm +p is 38,500.
10mm Auto is 37,500.
If a gun is designed for 10 mm auto,a .357 Sig would be at +P pressure for the gun.
My understanding is that the Sheild was designed for the 40 S+W from the start. Both the 40 and the 9mm standard is 35,000 psi. All other things equal,including pressure,a larger cartridge with greater bore/breech surface area will stress a gun more,as the pressure is applied to the surface area.
In a Shield,the locking surfaces and breech will have roughly the same experience from a 9mm +P as they would from a 40 S+W. I'd expect a Shield in 40 S+W to last about the same round count as a Shield fed 9mm+p. However,thats just my opinion.S+W might disagree.
If the 357 Sig is in a particular gun,say a 1911,brass strength aside,the 40,000 psi 357 Sig is just as hard on the gun as 40,000 psi +p+ 38 Super loads.
There is no free lunch.Everything is a tradeoff.
10mm Auto is 37,500.
If a gun is designed for 10 mm auto,a .357 Sig would be at +P pressure for the gun.
My understanding is that the Sheild was designed for the 40 S+W from the start. Both the 40 and the 9mm standard is 35,000 psi. All other things equal,including pressure,a larger cartridge with greater bore/breech surface area will stress a gun more,as the pressure is applied to the surface area.
In a Shield,the locking surfaces and breech will have roughly the same experience from a 9mm +P as they would from a 40 S+W. I'd expect a Shield in 40 S+W to last about the same round count as a Shield fed 9mm+p. However,thats just my opinion.S+W might disagree.
If the 357 Sig is in a particular gun,say a 1911,brass strength aside,the 40,000 psi 357 Sig is just as hard on the gun as 40,000 psi +p+ 38 Super loads.
There is no free lunch.Everything is a tradeoff.
All I'll add to the thread is this, this is not intended to insult anyone, or to hurt their feeling, or to be derogatory in any way.
There is a saying, to get a fool to depart with his/her money.
The +P and +P+ is a scam by the ammo companies to get folks to part with their money. The art of the con
There is a saying, to get a fool to depart with his/her money.
The +P and +P+ is a scam by the ammo companies to get folks to part with their money. The art of the con
While I believe there's a lot of truth to that, I also have to believe that +P and +P+ have their place.
Looking at the stats on BBI, I see that the standard pressure 9mm from a 4 and/or 5 inch barrel is nearly equaled by the +P rounds from a 2 and/or 3 inch barrel.
I'm currently in the market for a sub-compact 9mm to either replace or supplant my .380 LCP.
Should I choose to go that route, I'm pretty sure I'll go with a +P in it for carry.
OTOH - the sheer mountain of crap going around concerning the supposedly "magical" performance of +P and +P+ is sort of comical
In 124 grain I don't mind +P as there often is a reasonable upgrade in performance (in gel, for whatever that is actually worth) and I don't notice significant increase in recoil or slower splits times.
I prefer, however, standard pressure 147 grain in my 9mms because that's was runs best for me, with acceptable performance with HST bullets.
I do primarily shoot and carry a gun with at leadt a 4" barrel, for what it's worth.
I prefer, however, standard pressure 147 grain in my 9mms because that's was runs best for me, with acceptable performance with HST bullets.
I do primarily shoot and carry a gun with at leadt a 4" barrel, for what it's worth.
Just for perspective,there is another active thread about a barrel to convert a 40 S+W Shield to 357 Sig for $135. Mostly,everyone is saying it works great and they are happy.
I looked up SAAMI max for 357 Sig,its 40,000 psi,plus the greater area of the 40 S+W case had.
There is no sentiment of "You could put your eye out" in that thread,yet here 9mm +P is greeted with skepticism.
FWIW,I mostly shoot Walmart WW White box 115 gr hardball.Its cheap.
Because it was on the shelf,available,I bought and reliability tested 115 gr Critical Defense. It runs.
I'm sure there is better ammo.I think I'd like 147 gr +p what? HST's or HSM's?? I have not tried any. Maybe some time.
I'm thinking its subtle shades of grey difference.The 115 Critical Defense will work.Its not even +P.
But,I COULD give up a couple of roundscapacity and put a.357 Sig barrel on it.(If it was a .40. Its a 9mm. Moot point,I'm not going to)
I looked up SAAMI max for 357 Sig,its 40,000 psi,plus the greater area of the 40 S+W case had.
There is no sentiment of "You could put your eye out" in that thread,yet here 9mm +P is greeted with skepticism.
FWIW,I mostly shoot Walmart WW White box 115 gr hardball.Its cheap.
Because it was on the shelf,available,I bought and reliability tested 115 gr Critical Defense. It runs.
I'm sure there is better ammo.I think I'd like 147 gr +p what? HST's or HSM's?? I have not tried any. Maybe some time.
I'm thinking its subtle shades of grey difference.The 115 Critical Defense will work.Its not even +P.
But,I COULD give up a couple of roundscapacity and put a.357 Sig barrel on it.(If it was a .40. Its a 9mm. Moot point,I'm not going to)
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peacefulgary
New member
Only if you ignore math and physics.
Go and shoot a 125g .38 Special round out of a S&W aluminum frame snub-nosed revolver.
And then shoot a 125g .357 Magnum round out of that same revolver.
Then come back and tell us that velocity doesn't matter.