9mm, 9mm +p

I wouldn't recommend +P in any instance.
If standard-pressure 9mm won't get the job done, get a bigger gun.
Same for .45 ACP+P.
While I'm of the opinion that 9mm "needs all the help it can get", I don't think there's enough ballistic improvement with +P to justify the additional recoil, muzzle blast, etc.
 
RickB said:
I wouldn't recommend +P in any instance.
If standard-pressure 9mm won't get the job done, get a bigger gun.
Same for .45 ACP+P.
While I'm of the opinion that 9mm "needs all the help it can get", I don't think there's enough ballistic improvement with +P to justify the additional recoil, muzzle blast, etc.
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Wouldn't a bigger gun/more powerful cartridge produce more recoil and muzzle blast, too?
 
I'm not using +p. I don't advocate for +p. Would I try it,or use it in my M+P? Sure.
If we are talking SAAMI +p,its 38,500 for +p,and 35,000 for standard. That's 10%

I do understand taking care of older collectables,and lightly built carry pieces.

I also don't believe +10% in pressure will be a game changer in cartridge performance. Its a shade of grey.

But I also don't want to bet my life on any gun so lame,weinie,marginal,or poor that another 3500 psi will make it fall apart.

If I'm going to shoot 100 rounds at targets,why use =p???

If I feel better believing the marketing that +p turns my M+P 9 C into a dragon slaying hammer of Thor so long as I pay $8 more a box,so be it.

Because its expensive enough I probably won't shoot more than 250 a year.

Much ado about not much.
 
Wouldn't a bigger gun/more powerful cartridge produce more recoil and muzzle blast, too?
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Indeed, there is no free lunch.

However, a bigger, heavier gun does go part of the way to cancelling out the recoil. So, it becomes a matter of your personal priorities, what are you willing to live with, to get something, vs. what are you willing to give up to keep something???

If you have to have one of the micro sized pocket guns, there are limitation to what power level can be used in the gun, both mechanically, and practically.

You can build a .44 Magnum the size of a pocket 9mm. It won't hold many rounds, and you won't be able to shoot it fast and accurately (assuming you can even hold on to it past the first shot), but each round is much more powerful than a 9mm Luger.

Or you can have a 6lb 9mm "pistol" built on an AR15 platform. Recoil is about nil, but its a 6lb pistol, and about twice the size of a 9mm duty pistol (or more).

Most people don't want either of these extremes.
 
If we are talking SAAMI +p,its 38,500 for +p,and 35,000 for standard. That's 10%
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And that 10% more pressure does not equate to 10% more velocity in a given pistol length barrel.

You need to chrono a load thru YOUR gun and see what, if any, velocity gain you actually get. Then compare recoil between the +p and standard pressure load. If the gain makes sense.... go for it.
 
"While I'm of the opinion that 9mm "needs all the help it can get", I don't think there's enough ballistic improvement with +P to justify the additional recoil, muzzle blast, etc."

Wouldn't a bigger gun/more powerful cartridge produce more recoil and muzzle blast, too?
Click to expand...

I tend to buy guns proportional to their power, so my 9mm is a very light, very compact pistol, and bumping the power makes the gun harder than necessary to handle.
My .45 is much bigger and heavier, and is about equal in handling qualities, and I don't want to bump the recoil and blast of that one, either.
Muzzle blast is often more acute with +P, regardless of the base cartridge; 9mm+P would be greater than non+P .45.
 
Even when a manufacturer says that +P is OK for a given model, it is often with a caveat that regular use increases wear. Like some have said, though, your money and your guns.
 
Do you recommend 9mm +p over normal pressure 9mm? If so why and if not why not?
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Recomend? No, it is for the individual to decide.
Do I use +P 9MM? Yes, sometimes.
In my small 9MM Kahr CM 9 I use Speer Gold Dot +P Short Barrel. Many tests indicate it has very good penetration, and expansion from short barrel firearms. The Short Barrel version is only available in +P.
Same with the 38 Spcl. Short Barrel in my LCR.
 
9mm +p or +p+ only if you need the extra umph along with capacity. An occasional mag or three will not harm most modern semi autos.

Personally, I just carry 357 Sig under normal circumstances. Although these summer months are steering me toward a sub-compact Glock in 9mm. Maybe I'll carry +p+.
 
And that 10% more pressure does not equate to 10% more velocity in a given pistol length barrel.
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Assuming that the powder was well chosen for the +P, it will give approximately 10% more energy, about 5% higher velocity.

Also note that SAAMI maximum is 35000 and +P maximum is 38500.
But 35001 is also +P (assuming they could measure that close, which they can't.) This tripped up Norma in the last century when they offered ".38 Special Magnum" ammo, advertised as high velocity at standard pressures due to a superior powder.
But that was CIP and they had to relabel it as +P under SAAMI for sale here.
 
I actually prefer 9mm+P for self defense ammo.
Just like I prefer .38 Special +P instead of non+P .38 Special ammo.
My handguns can handle it and I think the extra velocity does make a difference.
 
I carry a concealed pistol because I can. If I get into a fight, as in a gunfight, I would be quite surprised, but it has happened to other people? So it could happen I suppose.

That being the case, having a good amount of cartridges in your carry pistol seems like a good idea? Carrying a particular bullet/cartridge combination that has a track record of working well when shot into vulnerable portions of the human body, mostly in documented Police shootings, I believe would be the place to start.
So why use plus P? or plus p+p just kicks more, and my Ranger T 147g HP goes deep enough to be effective, and what you hit, and how many times you hit it, is way more important than what you hit it with.
So a 4th Gen Glock 19 (16 round loadout) covers the basics, in my mind.
 
The Illinois State Police did a ton of testing and determined very early to make the 9mm work. In real life shootings bullet construction and velocity were quickly seen to be critical. The eventually developed a load which became famous as "The Illinois State Police load" which was a 115 grain JHP loaded to +P+ pressures to achieve the desired velocity. This led to the Federal 9BPLE load which was carried by every FED with a 9mm for at least a decade after the infamous Miami FBI shootout.

I rarely carry a 9mm for SD, when I do it loaded with 115 grain or 124 grain +P+ JHP's.
 
I’ve shot +P or +P+ in 9mm’s for years, and have seen no evidence of any accelerated wear in any of them. In fact, I liked the +P+ Ranger 127gn load a lot, as it proved to be one of the most accurate loads I shot in some pistols.
The high pressure loads feel a lot more like the surplus, real surplus 9mm ball i shot in the Radom I had when I was young. Muzzle blast and recoil are a complete non-issue.
Right now, I have a few boxes of 9mm BPLE in stock. Why not? It is one of the best deals in serious SD ammo with a great street record spanning decades...I think I paid $15/50 from SG ammo. My G26 is loaded with HST 147gn +P, also a good deal in 50rd boxes.
I very rarely buy ammo in anything but 50rd boxes.
 
In my experience, 9mm +P tends to offer more consistent expansion over standard pressure. Also, the increase in recoil and muzzle blast when using +P is barely noticeable in service sized handguns.
 
AMD6547.

The +P+ Ranger 127gn you speak about, I had a brief spell carrying, after hearing of the reports from the Autopsy rooms.

So way back when I gave this info. to a friend of mine who was the Chief Instructor of a City in Florida. He shifted over to it! His SWAT team loved it.

But when it found it's way into the teams H&K MP5s Sub Machine guns. And hammered the Bolt locking pins up! Very expensive repairs (Sorry Frank)
 
I have a few guns with manuals that say you can use it but that it may increase wear and tear. Two things I like about 9mm are light recoil and affordability. Undermining those benefits and beating on my guns just doesn't appeal to me. If I want to send a 9mm projectile downrange at greater speeds, I'll do a better job with .357 Sig and I'll have peace of mind knowing that the guns are built for the task.
 
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