90gr. JSP 9mm as a carry load

Too light IMO.


Isn't it funny, but a 90 grainer in a .380 or Makarov round is o.k., but if it is going 400fps faster in a 9mm, it's too light?
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There are plenty of folks (like myself) who think the the .380 and the 9mm Makarov are inadequate for self defense too.
 
For every hard corps guy that carries a big gun most, if not all the time, there is another fella that is satisfied to pack a .32 or .380 (for whatever reason they may have, they do it). Somewhere in the middle falls the 9mm with the fast 90gr bullet. It ain't great, but it ain't bad. To dismiss it is to dismiss every defensive shooting that has employed a lesser round, and been successful. I will not do that. I know that if I were shot with one or more high velocity 9mm 90 grainers, I would hurt, or be severely injured. Incapacitated? Who's to say with ANY pistol round?
 
I'm seeing a lot of comparison between a 90gr 9mm and the same weight .380 and asking why if 90gr works in the latter, why not in the former. The issue is that most, if not all, expanding bullets are designed to work within a certain velocity window. A bullet that performs well at 900-1000fps is quite likely to overexpand and/or fragment at 1300-1400fps. The inverse of this is the reason that you don't see many JHP 115gr or heavier loadings in .380 or 9x18 Makarov: they can't be driven fast enough in these cartridge to reliably expand.

To understand this, one needs look no further than the original .357 Sig loadings. These used regular 9mm bullets that were designed for 1100-1250fps and drove them at 1400-1450fps in an attempt to duplicate the performance of the 125gr .357 Magnum loadings. Unfortunately, most of the 9mm bullets at the time were too fragile for those types of velocities (they had to be in order to reliably expand at 9mm velocities) and early .357 Sig loadings had issues with overexpansion and undesirable fragmentation. In response to these issues, most manufacturers did one or both of the following two things: they dropped the velocity of their .357 Sig loadings from 1450fps down to 1350fps and they designed newer, tougher bullets to hold together at higher velocity.
 
it funny, but a 90 grainer in a .380 or Makarov round is o.k., but if it is going 400fps faster in a 9mm, it's too light?
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Not for me..... I want JHP with 300+ ft.lbs and 12+ inches penetration (ballistic gelatin). The .380 meets none of those standards.
 
Why is everyone so afraid of ballistic gelatin?
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Oh, I'm not scared of it ...... not scared of prairie dogs either.... and I can shoot either of them without legal repercussions. Prairie dogs are cheaper.
 
Ballistic Gel is hard to work with.

You need a big fridge to keep it in

It has a limited shelf-life - even in the fridge

Depending on the temperature outside, there is a window of time that it can be used from the moment it is taken out of the fridge

If you ingest any of it you get sick


having said that - it drives me nuts when people shoot water jugs, soggy phone books, cartons of shredded wet news paper and other nonsensical mediums.

I guess the only other thing that makes sense to me is the Sim Test Media, if it is mixed with water correctly. I think you have to dillute the base product with 50% water - but what really matters is that when you do the BB test - Calibration of ballistic gelatin is verified by firing a .177 steel BB at 590 feet per second (fps), plus or minus 15 fps, into the gelatin resulting in 8.5 centimeters (cm), plus or minus 1 cm, penetration (2.95" – 3.74").

http://www.gelatininnovations.com/pages/ballistic.html

And at least one guy on YouTube has gotten Sim Test Media to pass the BB test, tnoutdoors9:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTB_lO5c5s
 
For 9mm 148gr is the only logical choice. Actually, the heaviest weight round your handgun will reliably cycle, in any caliber, is the best choice. Momentum is actually more important than simple energy numbers.
 
Isn't it funny, but a 90 grainer in a .380 or Makarov round is o.k., but if it is going 400fps faster in a 9mm, it's too light?
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Well, who said that?
I don't trust any light-for-caliber round, no matter which caliber we are talking about.
I sure don't trust any .380 or 9mm Mak as a carry round, and I consider a 9mm+p+ Para as marginal.
JMHO, of course, and YMMV.
 
not with a ten foot pole. Light bullets shed energy rapidly. they are lacking in momentum, and the high kinetic energy readings are truly deceptive. a Hollow point at 90 grains and 1300 fps would be turned inside out and stopped before it reached daNgerous penetration levels in a lot of circumstances. a soft point will basically leave a slightly larger channel than a solid. Neither one will penetrate to the desired depth.

Equal to the super vel? Gee, what is that, 40 years old? there have been a few changes and new things have been discovered since then.

In any handgun cartridge, when you have the option of trading higher bullet weight for velocity, most of the time the idea would be to go with higher bullet weight and diameter, and then, higher sectional density, and leave high velocity/light bullet rounds out.

I'm obviously not an expert, but my choice would be a 115 grain premium bullet at 1k fps, instead of one that is barely 3/4 of the weight, and 300 fps faster, because at this level, additional velocity is little help. The thing would have to be at close to 2k fps to become a really dangerous round. As it is, it isn't even close to being as powerful as the old gi 30 carbine, and remember, that thing was reviled as being useless.
 
Probably disintegrate when encountering still air ..... or rifling.

Either that thing has to be hollow, really short, or made of something other than lead ...... 90 grains and .451 diameter?

I'm guessing it would turn into rat shot if you push it too fast.
 
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are many 38 spl loads about 300 ftlbs in KE?? would a 95g at 1150 fps be only slightly less than 300 ftlbs KE and still leathal....speed it up 250 fps and it exceeds many 38 spl?? is that a problem??

ifs its accurate wouldnt that be sought after??
 
a 90gr high velocity 9mm would do the trick just fine. I use hornaday 90gr xtp's and they are pretty nasty. but I don't use them as my go-to carry load, I use the 125gr ftx.

the 90gr is the one on the bottom
 
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I'd use a 458 Lot for elephants, but I wouldn't carry a 380 for self defense!
Makes about as much sense as the other comments about 380 on this thread.

Modern JHP 380 ACP loads are the best you can get for that round, and sometimes a little mouse gun is all you can carry.
An old school light JSP is not the best round offered for 9MM, so why rely on it? :confused::confused::confused:
Sounds to me like you have a lot of good range ammo. But find a modern JHP loading that your self defense 9MM likes, and you can shoot well for your carry ammo.
 
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