84 rounds fired at murderer, 14 hits and he's still alive:

Hmm... 84 rounds fired at one suspect. That's as many rounds as the ENTIRE German police force fired last year.
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Best quote of the year so far... and I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
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Interesting. Did anybody check this? Supposedly, they fired 85 only with criminal activities, so the statement would be in error. They fired an additional 9000+ at animals. http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/polizei-schoss-2011-seltener-im-dienst-a-832037.html

Interesting stat, but am not sure what it indicates or how accurate it is. It was actually compiled by the Germans, but that is about as far as I got.
 
Interesting. Did anybody check this? Supposedly, they fired 85 only with criminal activities, so the statement would be in error. They fired an additional 9000+ at animals. http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justi...-a-832037.html
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Not sure what animals have to do with this...

Germany has a population of around 80 million - about a quarter of the US population, but with a much higher population density.


  1. Have they learned how to get along better than we have?

  2. Are the cops there more likely to solve problems in a less violent way?


I think both are true. I lived in Germany for 12 years (ten of those years in the military). They certainly have conflicts, but don't seem to resort to violence as quickly as we do here.
 
Not sure what animals have to do with this...
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Simple, you made the statement that 84 rounds was more than all of German police fired last year. It was wrong in 2 ways. First, it was wrong in that they fired 85 rounds during engagements with criminals and second it was wrong in that they fired over more than 9000 rounds during official duties last year.

While it is impressive that they used so little firepower with criminals, there is no reason rewrite or embellish the facts and state that the NY incident fired more than all of German police last year.
 
I've shot with lots of folks, several of them were in law enforcement, some were great shots lots weren't. I used to go to a dirt pit on my lunch hour with a sandwich and a pistol or 2 and spend the time shooting. A friend of mine asked me one time what was in my purse (gym bag with lunch and pistol & ammo) that I carried into work and out every time that I got in my truck, when I told him he asked if I was robbin banks on my lunch hour. After he found out he asked to join me, pretty soon I had a different shooting partner every day for lunch. We had a ball, next thing that I know the county sheriff (he and my dad were hunting partners) caught on to what I was doing and he asked around and wanted to know if he could send some of his guys & gals out to improve their skills (this was in the middle to late 70's before there as any formal training in my area). Lots of these folks had only shot to pass the really low qualification and then just carried a gun. Once they found out that they could be fun a lot of them got real good. The best seemed to be folks who grew up hunting, the best change was a woman who started out scared of guns but once she got over her fear she had more fun than any of us.
 
Most of the police here will have a Heckler & Koch MP5 or a Heckler & Koch G3s
in their car. Using their pistol would be a last resort.
 
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So, how many shots would have been just about right?
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Ideally, zero.
If the situation didn't allow that, one.

On the other hand, none of the participants died, so maybe 84 rounds was the right number. ;)
 
Denizen, I agree partly with your assessment, more training. Until they decide to give more training I sure don't want them having a lighter trigger though.
 
well reason i say trigger pull is the nypd's basis on a heavy pull is they can rest their fingers on the trigger. thats unsafe handling if you dont plan on having to shoot someone. like tap rack and decide. you have a decision to make on the assessment do i shoot or not. lets say your resting your finger on even a heavy trigger. and you flich or twitch and you are able to pull it. you just shot someone who wasnt fighting or unarmed. best qoute ever from the book Unintended Consequences: "Sorry doesnt take it back".
 
DNS,

You saved me a lot of typing.

Using their patrol vehicle for cover, the two officers, armed with G19s, fired a total of 84 rounds at this single suspect. Both officers reloaded twice! Range to the suspect was 21m. Exact locations of entry-wounds on the suspect are not known.

If he was shot in the extremities / in non-vital areas 14 times, I do not see how a rifle would have helped. I am not a cop and think as a security professional LEO's should carry long guns, the issue was with the marksmanship.

As someone said previously, you can never miss fast enough, or with too much gun.

Was there mention of drugs? PCP perhaps?
 
Again, it's easier to score good hits at distance with a rifle or carbine.

If all shots are unaimed, then the long gun will do more damage to extremities, so even there the long gun would have probably resulted in faster incapacitation.

Handguns are relatively puny, and harder to hit with at distance.
 
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