800 yards under $1,200?

[4runnerman]

With a few here--Any 308 will get you there. No need for a bull barrel or heavy barrel. You won't be able to shoot 10 rounds in a row with out a cool down,but accuracy is just as good. As for scope- I am a bad guy to talk to about that. I shoot matches at 1000 yards with a 8-32 x 56. I tell you if I could get into something even stronger ( money thing ).I would not think twice about it.

Im looking at something down the line of the Hubble Telescope.

 

[Unlicensed Dremel]

Midway offers 170 choices in .308 ammunition, and only about 34 choices for the 6.5 Creedmoor and .260 Remington combined. 40 of those 170 choices is for target/match ammunition so the .308 still has more choices than the others.

Yes, agreed!

just that the .308 isn't lacking either.

Well, but yes and no. Mostly, yes it is lacking, seems to me, relative to other long-range choices out there - and that's my main point. If everything else were equal, .308 would frankly suck gonads as a long-range round (it's all relative). But everything else is not equal - more selection of extremely high quality components - ammo and rifles - due (solely) to inertia. Therefore it's a pretty decent choice, and in fact, for most people, probably THE best choice if staying under 600 yards. And bbl life is excellent, so it's got that too. However, the gentleman going by "DemiGod LLC" says that .260 rem "blows away" (direct quote) the .308 in drop and drift at 1,000 yards. And that's a measly .260 rem, to say nothing of something like 6.5-284, .284 win, .280 rem AI, 7mm WSM, 7mm RSAUM, or even a properly built .243 win or other 6mm.

http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

But then again, I guess you could say that all cartridges are "lacking" relative to the next bigger one, until you get to .375-408 Cheytac. I dunno. It's all relative to bbl burn and cost. But I think that the .308 could definitely said to be lacking when you could go to a *smaller* cartridge like .260 rem which still has very good barrel life, and: (a) "blows away" the .308 in drop and drift at 1K yards, according to a noted expert, AND (b) has less recoil, AND (c) has cheaper components - meaning bullets (brass and powder are the same roughly).

But you're right - due to inertia / existing options, .308 is a very good choice, sadly enough.

I guess maybe the best way to put is "big picture, .308 isn't lacking" but if you either reload and/or are patient enough to buy the highest quality ammo available, the .308 is lacking.

 

[taylorce1]

(a) "blows away" the .308 in drop and drift at 1K yards, according to a noted expert,

Well since you want to use articles by Zak Smith "Mr. Demigod LLC", here is what your noted expert has to say about the .308 Win. Check out page 2.

If you can only have one long-range precision rifle, it should be in .308 Winchester. Match-grade .308 ammunition is available everywhere, reloading recipes are well known and reloading it is easy, and in many rifles, the surplus 7.62x51 NATO ammunition from some countries will shoot 1.5 MOA or better, which is good enough for short-range (400 yards and closer) practice from less steady shooting positions such as offhand, kneeling, over barricades, or shooting at movers.

We weren't talking 1K yards as the OP only wanted to go to 800 yards to start. However once you get past maximum point blank range with any cartridge you have to start turning turrets and use holdover techniques. If your capable of reading wind and getting the range right you stand just as good of a chance of hitting your target with a the .308 Win as you do the .260 Win.

AND (b) has less recoil,

Yes the .308 has more recoil. However it is usually around 1 ft-lbs of energy difference between the two with equal weight rifles.

AND (c) has cheaper components - meaning bullets (brass and powder are the same roughly).

Not really I'm able to often buy .308 caliber bullets cheaper than 6.5. I'd call that one a wash.

 

[taylorce1]

like somebody who has no clue what's involved in getting reliable hits at such ranges. Certainly, a 308 won't reliably expand a big game softpoint beyond 500 yds, so such a hit would be extremely unlikely to result in a humane kill. If you can't afford to spend a lot more than that on the gun and scope, how can you possibly afford enough practice time and ammo to be able to make such shots? This sort of thing is basically a full time job, and it's still going to be subject to crippline animals, because they took a step with the bullet in flight, or a gust of wind came up, etc.

Again, the OP never specifically stated that he wanted to hunt game at 800 yards. He simply stated he wanted a rifle he could shoot to 800 yards and take deer and hog hunting with friends. I guess you could "assume" since he said he'll mainly use the rifle at the range he wants to shoot game at 800 yards.

It's also a good thing that you don't need reliable expansion to provide clean kills on game. Penetration to the vitals is what provides humane kills on animals. Expansion promotes trauma and aids in killing that is for sure, but it isn't needed. However, the main reason expanding ammunition is required by law is to prevent over penetration.

Price plays no factor into how well you can shoot at 800 yards. I routinely shoot to 600 on steel with rifles that cost far less than the OP's budget. Heaven forbid some of them don't even have optics on them. I can buy a new rifle for less than 1K with optics that I can easily take to 800+ yards. Just like this rifle "Ruger American nailing the plate at 1040 yards."

Hey folks,

I see there are some questions, so hope this helps.

The rifle is bone stock except for some added weight in the buttstock for balance (it was nose heavy with the scope), and relocated the bi-pod reward towards magazine to reduce stock twisting while trying to acquire the target and leveling the rifle.

I'm using a Vortex Viper 6.5-20X50PA scope and Wheeler level.

 

[4runnerman]

dojer- I am trying to understand your post?. At 500 yards the bullet is still well over 2600 fps. It will expand very fine. The 308 is very very much a high power and accurate round. More than capable of dropping animals at 500 yards ( which is not that far of a shot ). Any one that thinks a 308 is not a Long Range ( paper) target rifle has no expirence shooting that round at all. As of last year at the Grand Master Match in Montana a 308 took 3rd place at 1000 yards,beating a pile full of 6.5 ,260, ect ect. Thousand of people shoot deer at 400 plus yards every year with no difficulty. There is a old saying about the 308. ( take it for what its worth). The 308 is great at everything and the best at nothing.It is just a all around great round period.

 

[tomrkba]

Savage 10 FP with any 3-9x optic that has hash marks in the reticle. I had great results with Federal Gold Medal Match 168 grain 308 Winchester. Hitting steel at 1,000 yards in the Wyoming wind was not a problem.

The main thing is to get proper instruction if you are new to the long range game. Don't get too wrapped up in all the details; just get on the range and shoot.

 

[4runnerman]

dojer-You are so wrong. I shoot a 168 gn at just shy of 2700 fps. At 500 yards it is still at 2649 fps. Im not sure where you get your info from,but you need to re check it. 2700 fps is very do able in a 308. I have a 24 inch barrel and use this for FTR class at 800 and 1000 yards with ease. For practice- I use no flags,never have used a spotter. And because you seem to think 500 yards is a hard shot,means nothing my friend. Now I do not endorse hunting at 500 yards in any way shape or form,but don't make it sound like a Hail Mary shot for some one with expirence.

 

[taylorce1]

dojer- I am trying to understand your post?. At 500 yards the bullet is still well over 2600 fps.

Your about 1000 fps off, a 165-168 grain bullet will have around 1800 fps. That is where most bullet manufacturers set a minimum speed for optimal expansion. The thing is even a tough bullet like a mono metal will still deform at slow speeds and have some expansion it isn't the ideal situation but it'll still work as long as you put the bullet where it belongs.

It takes a hot load and a long barrel, for a 308 Win to get 2700 fps with a 165gr btsp, or bthp, at the MUZZLE

Not really, considering the SAAMI specs for the cartridge have it with a max pressure of 62,000 PSI. There are several powders out there that will get you to nearly 2800 fps out of a 24" barrel with 165 grain bullet without going over 60,000 psi. A 20" barrel won't reach 2700 fps but it'll get around 2650+/- with the same loads. 22-24" have been the standard length barrel in the industries for several years on hunting rifles so I wouldn't call them long. The loads may be max but they aren't what I'd call hot.

 

[gk1]

That's 50 yards, maybe, but not 500... Using extremely generous data, a .308 Win is doing 1800-1900 fps at 500 yards. Realistically it'd be slower than that.

Edit- taylorce posted while I was typing...

 

[Metal god]

My ballistic calc shows 175gr smk , 2700fps at muzzle will have a velocity of 1932fps at 500yds and thats being nice by giving it a BC of .5 and some altitude

 

[Unlicensed Dremel]

I think Mr. Taylor knows more about LR rifles than I ever will, so I'll defer to him... I'm just saying that Mr. Demi-God LLC guy seems to know a few things too, so I listen to him carefully as well.

If you're rich and can re-barrel every 6 months to a year, then by all means, get a .26 Nosler, 7mm RUM, or .300 / .338 buttstomper mag. Particularly if you actually *like* recoil - some people do apparently.

If you're dirt poor and will likely never ever be able to re-barrel, yet you still shoot a lot -- and/or you shoot factory ammo only (a very unlikely combination of circumstances, seems to me; the frugal types tend to relaod), the .308 seems like an excellent choice.

But most of us are in between those two extremes, so gaining a little more BC-Vel / 1-2 punch for slightly less bbl life makes more sense, particular when recoil is *less*, not more. Hence the .260 (& similar) appeal.

 

[hooligan1]

How about the OP's original question? For the sake of having sake, and before anymore of you fellas swell up like bullfrogs, remember theres a member trying to wring good intell on rifle and caliber info.....
Ill be one to tell you fellas that most bullet makers design a .308 caliber bullet that will make clean kills to 500 and then some.
From what I can tell he's wanting to know what we can tell him the best rifle scope and .30 cal. matchup would best suit someone maybe fairly new to the sport of LR shooting and hunting.
I'm looking for a cheap used .308 winchester chambered rifle to work on and shoot 800 yds or farther and if I can hunt game out to reasonable distances with it.

 

[4runnerman]

Taylor , Hooligan- You are correct. I punched in Numbers to fast. FPS would be around 1700 or so. My mistake-sorry Checking again it would be 1800 fps and still have 1200 fp energy