7.62 Nagant revolver

[SteveBonning]

Prvi Partisan makes modern ammo for the Nagant revolver. I have some, think I got it from Sportsman Guide.

 

[gandog56]

Heck, the stuff has spam cans of the real stuff available. But I may be one of the few guys that not only has the Lee dies, but an actual RCBS 7.62 Nagant SHELLHOLDER (No longer in production) . The Lee dies use a 32-20 shellholder and they do NOT fit on the used hotshot commercial brass I use. The rim of the brass is too thick for the Lee shellholder. As to the guy who says that he takes a real round of 7.62 Nagant and uses it to set his dies for a like original round crimp, I need to see if that is good for the Lee dies, since they use a shorter case and disable the gas seal function. I know that the bullet seater plug from the Lee set won't even seat the bullet deep enough without some modifications. I wonder if he has the old RCBS die set? (also no longer in production)

 

[kraigwy]

Lee dies for the 7.62X39R DO WORK, I've loaded hundreds of rounds using the Lee dies.

In using 32-20 brass you do have to trim the back of the rim about .10 but they do work. The 32-20 brass is too short to get the gas seal system on the Nagant to work, but the ammo works.

I bought a bunch of ammo that came with boxer primers so I have a good supply of brass. I use the 32-20 in a pinch.

But the Lee dies do make some nice loads.

I shot this target at 15 yards with ammo loaded with the Lee dies.

 

[gandog56]

The real problem is not a single one of my reloading manuals have recipes for a real Nagant cased reload. I have to start from various recipes I can find on different boards.

 

[Romeo 33 Delta]

Kraigwy ... I've been using a 115gr RNFP in my .32-20 cases, but recently fell into some Fiocchi 7.62 X 38R brass and not using it is killing me. What bullet are you using?

Thanks!

 

[donkee]

To increase the fun factor of shooting my Nagant revolver I no longer load smokless cartridges for it. I have gone to black powder using 100g cast lead bullets. Makes a neat boom and lots of smoke. Fairly accurate too.

I use the LEE die set and Starline 32-20 brass. I modified my revolver to take the 32-20 brass as is so no shaving off a couple thousandths off the brass.

I'll do a video of it next time I take it out. It will probably be a while though.

 

[kraigwy]

Kraigwy ... I've been using a 115gr RNFP in my .32-20 cases, but recently fell into some Fiocchi 7.62 X 38R brass and not using it is killing me. What bullet are you using?

I use a 90 grn .311 RN bullet from a Lee mold (actually throws 94 grans). I don't know what number, can't read it.

I size smaller and use the same bullet in my 30 cal Carbine. Plus my wife just bought a 32 H&R which I found I can use the same bullet.

As mentioned you can use the 32-20 brass. I chuck them in a lathe and trim off .010 off the back of the rim. You also have to run it through the sizing die to get it to work. Works but I don't like it. Its too short and the gas seal doesn't work.

I bit the bullet and bought a bunch of factory ammo with re-loadable brass, works better.

Another hint on loading the 7.62X38R. I use my carbide 30 cal Carbine die to size the brass. its .004 larger then the Nagant brass, (M1 Carbine base is .356, the Nagant base is .352). It doesn't seem to matter in my Nagant cylinder.

 

[Romeo 33 Delta]

Kraigwy ... well I just put up some dummy test rounds with the Fiocchi brass. Did like you suggest ... .30 Carbine FL die.

Then used a Lee powder-thru die to flare the case mouth. (had it lying around)

Then modified a spare .32-20 Seater die I had wasting away by unscrewing the stem cap and dropping a 3/4" long 1/4-20 Roundhead Machine Screw into the end and screwing the cap down tight (you have to now set the depth of seating with the die lock ring instead of the stem cap, but that's OK). The bullet I ended up using was a 100gr, .312" plated RNFP that I had for my H&R.

Then dug up an old .25-20WCF seating die that I had laying around from some other project I pirated the other dies for and that was just PERFECT for putting just the right amount of chamfer/taper on the case mouth. A nice, little bit; nothing like the "factory" rounds so I hope for a decent case life.

Then put the .30 M1 die (without decaping pin) back in the press and just ran the loaded round up into it about half the length of the "neck" area (as otherwise the case would stick with about an 1/8" not fitting into the cylinder). After that last, little operation the loaded rounds drop right into the cylinder and the case mouths snug up without any resistance when cocking the pistol.

Thanks for the tips ... now I can swing both ways on this cartridge!

 

[dmmccarter]

Here is something I posted over at Castboolits...

I have been working on a gas seal load that would replicate the velocity of a Military Surplus Nagant 7.62x38r round for a couple of months and thought I'd share what I found.

Boolit: Lyman 311008 FN 115GR
Case: PPU 7.62mm Nagant
Powder: Trailboss 5.1gr C
Primer: CCI 550
Dies: Lee M1 Carbine (with custom seating), Lee Universal Decapping, Lee Universal Expander (with custom flare die), custom crimp die.

Data: (taken from 10ft from the muzzel)
Test Round: 113 GR Cast Boolit Gas Seal
Hi Vel: 974
Low Vel: 834
Ave Vel: 907
Ext Spread: 140
Std Dev: 36
+1SD: 944
-1SD: 870


Basline: 108 GR Military Surplus Gas Seal Round
Hi Vel: 937
Low Vel: 846
Ave Vel: 900
Ext Spread: 91
Std Dev: 30
+1SD: 931
-1SD: 870


Chart:

Let me know if you have any questions, if this is useful for you and if you have any feedback.

Here are the dies in order of operation...
decapper, expander, <prepared case>, M1 seating die, custom crimper, M1 sizing die.

Here are three finished rounds and a cast boolit...

 

[kraigwy]

Just for your information, the Russian Nagant Revolver and its 7.62X38R ammo sucks for shooting bowling pins.

But its still a lot of fun to shoot.

 

[jimbob86]

I just ran some of the Prvi 98 gr stuff over my chrony ...... that stuff is atrocious ...... AVG MV was 659 ....... velocities were all over the place.... a low of 485 (eeek! squib!) and high of 702 ...... I did manage one 4" 7 round group from 10 yards..........

I just KNOW that I can make better ammo than that!

 

[JD0x0]

I just ran some of the Prvi 98 gr stuff over my chrony ...... that stuff is atrocious ...... AVG MV was 659 ....... velocities were all over the place.... a low of 485 (eeek! squib!) and high of 702 ...... I did manage one 4" 7 round group from 10 yards..........

I just KNOW that I can make better ammo than that!

Yeah, that sounds pretty terrible. I think the standard loading was a 97gr @about 1070 fps. And the nagant revolver was supposed to be fairly accurate.

Edit: found this on wiki

Most commercially loaded ammunition for the Nagant, including Fiocchi and the "СССР"-marked yellow box imports, are target ammunition, and do not have great stopping power. The low power of these rounds has given the Nagant a reputation as an underpowered sidearm. However, the original military ball cartridges fired bullets in the 6.5 g (100 grains) range at up to 330 m/s (1,100 ft/s), making them close to the .32-20 Winchester and .32 H&R Magnum in power. These original military ball rounds are very hard to find and are considered collector's items.

 

[jimbob86]

I just KNOW that I can make better ammo than that!

And I DID!

Just a few rounds to prove to myself I could do it -

100gr .312" XTP over 8.5 gr H110 gave me 1026 f/sec and the cases dropped out of the cylinder without using the ejection rod do-hickey.

115gr .314" LFN of uncertain parentage over 8.5 gr H110 gave me 980 f/sec and lots of lead in the barrel ....... ejection was stickier, too ......

Recoil was much stiffer than the PPU target loads, but I kept all the rounds on a paper plate at 30 feet, offhand, even after the plate fell backwards at a 45 degree angle ......

I'll be making more and shooting off a rest for groups, when I get some more time ..... work has me swamped!

 

[jimbob86]

OK- I have a few minutes .....

I have read elsewhere on the net that .309" bullets should be used.

I slugged my barrel (put some penetrating oil in the barrel and pushed a .314" lead bullet through it) and got .309" land to land and .311" groove to groove. I decided to go with a .312 bullet.

I also sized the loaded rounds like dmmccarter did, but used the Lee Nagant sizer instead of the M1 sizer. Before I sized them again (after seating the bullets), they would not chamber ...... I am wondering what size the bullets were when they went into the barrel ........

Thoughts?

 

[gandog56]

I just ran some of the Prvi 98 gr stuff over my chrony ...... that stuff is atrocious ...... AVG MV was 659 ....... velocities were all over the place.... a low of 485 (eeek! squib!) and high of 702 ...... I did manage one 4" 7 round group from 10 yards..........

I just KNOW that I can make better ammo than that!

Heck, I can RELOAD better ammo than that!

P.S. if you don't reload, save me those cases!