7-08 for elk

[reynolds357]

This is something that sadly, too many people don't recognize. Just because you have a rifle that has the energy to take game at 600yards doesn't mean you can, or should shoot at game that far away.

I've always been in agreement with the old school gun writer (though I forget which one it was) who said that if you ever shoot a big game animal at more than 300 yards, you should have to write yourself a letter, longhand, in triplicate (no carbon paper) explaining exactly WHY you HAD to take that shot.

Some will defend taking foolishly long shots with "I'm a good shot" or "the rifle will do it", or often "I couldn't get any closer".

TO which I ask, did you even try to get closer??

Too many people focus too much only on shooting when they should focus more on hunting. (and by hunting I mean stalking and getting close enough to the game animal to be within the easily usable range of their weapon to becertain of a humane kill.)

Why should I be limited by someones opinion of how far I should shoot. The last deer I missed or lost was in the 1980's. Most deer I shoot are over 400 yards. My longest is 760 laser ranged. People I hunt with miss deer at under 100 yards. Am I irresponsible or are they?

 

[Double K]

I shot this little buck a couple of years ago after he licked the rung on my treestand, is that close enough? Btw, I jack the poundage up as high as I can and still draw the bow because I want the arrow to go completely through every time just like a bullet should, makes blood trails much shorter, use enough gun or bow.

 

[stagpanther]

Nice--I have a carbon knight. Somebody did a study on arrows and came to the conclusion that as long as the range is good you don't need to crank the draw up--mine is set at about 50 lbs.

 

[Double K]

I have my Diamond set at 60lbs, been trying to get a cow elk with it but I hunt a small property where it's hard to catch them on if your working everyday.
Just like rifles you can kill deer and elk with very light poundage bows or small guns if everything is perfect, Murphy has a way with showing up at all the wrong times however. I wouldn't consider a 50lb bow as light weight especially a compound, you should be able to shoot through any undulate with a good broadhead at reasonable distances.
I use one piece Montec G5 carbon broadheads because I bought into the expandable fad when they came out, one hit on a big mule deer shoulder blade convinced me they might work flawlessly on perfect behind the shoulder shots but can come apart when hitting bone. I have what's left of that expandable somewhere around here, there were pieces of it scattered everywhere in the meat. The butcher found most of them and wasn't happy about it.

Is a Bowtech Carbon Knight the same as the Diamond SB1?, they look the alot alike, if I'm not mistaken Diamond is made by Bowtech, their economy line.

 

[Don Fischer]

I've seen animals go down like the earth reached up and slapped them with tiny cartridges. I've also seen them make a death dash with lungs hanging out the exit wound, much farther than you'd imagine from much larger cartridges. However, I never said that a smaller cartridge hits as hard as a much larger one.

My point all along is the 7-08 is an adequate elk (or deer) cartridge, not the perfect one. IMO there is no perfect elk cartridge, and if we'd stop looking for one and just go use what we have we'd all probably be more successful elk hunters. I wasted a lot of money and time trying to pair the perfect cartridge for the game I was pursuing. Which I've decided in recent years trying to do is the definition of insanity as well.

So if you're using a relatively common idea of using 1500 lb-ft of energy to kill elk, then the 7-08 is effectively a 375 yard rifle with a 140 bullet. That means the if you use the 7mm RM with the same energy requirement and bullet you've effectively extended the usable range by about 175 yards. Say you're a hunter that just wants 1800 fps minimum impact velocity to make sure your bullet expands properly, now you've extended the effective range of the 7mm-08 to roughly 650 yards, but the 7mm RM with the same bullet only gets your an extra 175 yards again. Pretty much you can pick any number you want between the two using the same 140 grain bullet and it only equals 175 yard head start for the 7mm RM.

Are you going to have to pass on some shots using a 7mm-08 vs. using a larger cartridge? Absolutely, but knowing which shots you can take and knowing when to pass is also part of being a mature hunter. However, just because you're using a larger cartridge doesn't mean you can take any shot presented as well.

Super post. let me add one thing. I have never ever in my entire life seen a shot I had to take! Never have been charged by a dangerous animal!

 

[Double K]

If I may make a minor counter point...

Since we seem to be talking about shooters at large rather than individual examples, I think it's important to note that those who practice tend to do better than those who don't, and those who practice a lot tend to do better than those who practice a little...

I live in Virginia where the whitetail deer are the vast majority of our "large game." In most counties, shooting a deer 200 lbs or more is a big deal. So my 7-08 is more than sufficient. It is also the lightest shooting cartridge I've ever hunted with. It's extremely comfortable to shoot, so I've also practiced with it drastically more than I ever practiced with the 30-06, the 300 Win mag, or the 7mm mag.

So I'm more comfortable shooting it, and I'm more familiar with what it will and won't do. As such, I am better equipped hunting deer or elk with it than I would be with something that makes me angry after 5-10 shots of practice. (I could also add that those who reload, and are on a budget, can afford to practice more with something that doesn't use magnum level consumables.)

I'm not disputing that magnums do more damage (at range), that is a given. But I don't thing their destructive advantage trumps the other advantages to be found in other factors.

You make some good points however as to practice I don't know a single hunter who practices with their big game rifle enough to be a really good shot, not one and I know a lot because of my job. I'm sure there are a few but you would have to have your own personal range and have the time, money and discipline to practice weekly. Normal hunters just don't do that including myself, what lots of people who want to be very good shots do is shoot an air rifle every day or shoot 22lr on the weekends. When your practicing with those gun it really doesn't matter how hard your big game rifle kicks.
Whenever I'm taking someone on a big game hunt I tell them to dry fire everyday from a bi-pod or whatever portable rest they carry for a couple of weeks before going on the hunt, that makes a huge difference.

 

[Tallest]

You make some good points however as to practice I don't know a single hunter who practices with their big game rifle enough to be a really good shot, not one and I know a lot because of my job. I'm sure there are a few but you would have to have your own personal range and have the time, money and discipline to practice weekly. Normal hunters just don't do that including myself, what lots of people who want to be very good shots do is shoot an air rifle every day or shoot 22lr on the weekends. When your practicing with those gun it really doesn't matter how hard your big game rifle kicks.
Whenever I'm taking someone on a big game hunt I tell them to dry fire everyday from a bi-pod or whatever portable rest they carry for a couple of weeks before going on the hunt, that makes a huge difference.

I don't disagree with your assessment, but I absolutely disagree that it's an acceptable standard. If I am going to use a weapon to take a life, even an animal life, I personally feel obligated to take the necessary measures to be 100% confident in my ability to take the shots I choose. To me, that means practicing with gun I am going to use at the ranges I am going to be using it. Yes, mechanics of shooting should be honed to a razor's edge, but until I have shot X rifle at 400 yards, 600 yards, 800 yards, etc... until I know, through experience, how it drops, how it bucks the wind (or doesn't), I'm not going to take a shot at an animal at that distance.

 

[Double K]

I don't disagree with your assessment, but I absolutely disagree that it's an acceptable standard. If I am going to use a weapon to take a life, even an animal life, I personally feel obligated to take the necessary measures to be 100% confident in my ability to take the shots I choose. To me, that means practicing with gun I am going to use at the ranges I am going to be using it. Yes, mechanics of shooting should be honed to a razor's edge, but until I have shot X rifle at 400 yards, 600 yards, 800 yards, etc... until I know, through experience, how it drops, how it bucks the wind (or doesn't), I'm not going to take a shot at an animal at that distance.

I don't like shooting much past 300yds with a rifle at live game and 7-08 can be sighted in with a maximum point blank range of 340yds so you can hold in the center of an animal to that range.
I don't know anyone personally that shoots at unwounded game much past 300yds, a real 300yds that is measured with a laser range finder.
I've met plenty of people who thought actual distances of 2-3-4-500 meters were double those distances.

 

[Paul B.]

Over the years I've used the .270, 280, 30-06, .300 Win. Mag. and the .35 Whelen on various elk hunts. Never got one so far with t e .270 or .280 but did just fine with the others. Tae only elk lost was with the .300 Win. Mag., not because of a bad shot but because when I went back to my vehicle about a mile away to get my wife to help me gut the elk, a couple of low lives cut my elk in half and we saw them as they drove off on their ATVs. That elk was a one shot kill BTW. Same with the 30-06. However, when I tried the .35 Whelen, results were awesome. Six elk with six shots over the years I hunted. The few that were not dead were so incapacitated that they were unable to get up.
But we're talking the 7-08 for elk. On January second this year I was in a motor vehicle accident that put me in hospital just four days before I was scheduled to leave for my elk hunt. I was planning to take three rifles for the hunt. A 7x57 with loads equal to the 7-08, a .280 Rem. that hasn't been blooded yet and my ever faithful .35 Whelen. Which was to be used depended on the conditions during the hunt.
The 7x57 ran 150 gr. Nosler Partitions at 2700 FPS, the .280 the 160 gr. Speer Grand Slam (old two core version) at 2910 FPS and the .35 with the 225 gr. TSX at 2710 FPS. I have perfect confidence in all three rifles to at least 300 yards and 350 for sure with the Whelen.
I see no reason why a 7-08 with a top load with the 150 gr. Nosler Accubond or Partiton would not work just fine within it's limitations.
Paul B.

 

[Double K]

Over the years I've used the .270, 280, 30-06, .300 Win. Mag. and the .35 Whelen on various elk hunts. Never got one so far with t e .270 or .280 but did just fine with the others. Tae only elk lost was with the .300 Win. Mag., not because of a bad shot but because when I went back to my vehicle about a mile away to get my wife to help me gut the elk, a couple of low lives cut my elk in half and we saw them as they drove off on their ATVs. That elk was a one shot kill BTW. Same with the 30-06. However, when I tried the .35 Whelen, results were awesome. Six elk with six shots over the years I hunted. The few that were not dead were so incapacitated that they were unable to get up.
But we're talking the 7-08 for elk. On January second this year I was in a motor vehicle accident that put me in hospital just four days before I was scheduled to leave for my elk hunt. I was planning to take three rifles for the hunt. A 7x57 with loads equal to the 7-08, a .280 Rem. that hasn't been blooded yet and my ever faithful .35 Whelen. Which was to be used depended on the conditions during the hunt.
The 7x57 ran 150 gr. Nosler Partitions at 2700 FPS, the .280 the 160 gr. Speer Grand Slam (old two core version) at 2910 FPS and the .35 with the 225 gr. TSX at 2710 FPS. I have perfect confidence in all three rifles to at least 300 yards and 350 for sure with the Whelen.
I see no reason why a 7-08 with a top load with the 150 gr. Nosler Accubond or Partiton would not work just fine within it's limitations.
Paul B.

And I agree with your last statement Paul, I'm sure a 7-08 will work within it's limitations but why set yourself up with limitations regarding firearm choice before ever leaving your house, elk hunting is pretty demanding physically and can be expensive as well.
You wouldn't take your car elk hunting because it gets better gas mileage than your truck and is easier to drive.

 

[langenc]

Komojo Bell OI believe it was shot hundreds of ELEPHANT w/ 303..

Difference w/ him and your friend-distance. He shot the big bruisers at 10 yards, your friend wants to shoot elk at 300-400+ yards.

 

[lefteye]

That elephant hunter was Karamojo Bell, probably the most famous elephant hunter ever! I haven't given much thought to using a 7-08 for elk. However, I have taken to two 5 x 5 bull elk and the larger one is on my wall (not the whole elk of course!): 2nd Edit: I shot both elk with a .300 Win. Mag.

 

[Double K]

What is amusing is how many people wholeheartedly endorse a deer cartridge but when asked what they use more often than not they're using something bigger sometimes a significantly larger cartridge.
"of yea that deer cartridge is fantastic but I use a 300 {fill in the blank} cannon myself because well I'm a real shooter and can handle recoil being an expert elk hunter and all"

 

[FITASC]

Komojo Bell OI believe it was shot hundreds of ELEPHANT w/ 303..

Difference w/ him and your friend-distance. He shot the big bruisers at 10 yards, your friend wants to shoot elk at 300-400+ yards.

Karamojo's favorite rifle was his 275 Rigby - we know it better as a 7x57 Mauser. Since most factory 7x57s are loaded light for all of the old rifles, the 7-08 would be fine for elk.
Know YOUR skill level as well as the capability of the rifle. For ME in MY model 7, that would mean a 140, 150, or 160 Nosler Partition for elk and a range of no more than 300 yards - but that's for my capabilities with my rifle.

 

[taylorce1]

What is amusing is how many people wholeheartedly endorse a deer cartridge but when asked what they use more often than not they're using something bigger sometimes a significantly larger cartridge.
"of yea that deer cartridge is fantastic but I use a 300 {fill in the blank} cannon myself because well I'm a real shooter and can handle recoil being an expert elk hunter and all"

Really, just give the topic a break. We all understand where you're coming from with your opinion. Not everyone agrees with you and let us just leave it at that. You don't have the corner on the market of elk hunting experience.

You've already proven what kind of shooter and hunter you are.

I didn't have buck tag but my wife did, we saw bucks we'd never seen before at my place, mid-morning my wife shot a buck three times with her 7-08 and when he finally made it to fence and looked like he might jump it I gave one with my 7 short mag and dropped him.

Double K. Since you live Co we have good game law, You can't kill someone game. It's felony for killing someone else's game and it's called Party Hunting.

Great hunter you arre.

I had what's called a like license, perfectly legal to kill an already mortally wounded animal to prevent loss.
And I appreciate your compliment, I am a great hunter and shot,

First you state you didn't have a buck tag, then you say you had a like license. What license was that? Either you had a buck tag or you didn't, there is no such thing as a like license in rifle seasons. So did you put your tag on that deer? If you had a "like license" that buck became yours and not your wife's when you dropped it. Tagging game you shot with someone else's tag is illegal in CO and as Old Roper pointed out "Party Hunting" (not listed as a felony).

23. Party hunt (i.e. harvest someone else’s game or let someone harvest yours).

Is your backside cold from letting it hang out so much?

 

[Double K]

Your pretty wound up over this Taylor, your transparent in that when losing a debate you attack a person and not their opinions or facts. As to the practice of putting down wounded animals that are clearly mortally wounded for a hunting partner and especially a spouse, regardless of weather it stretches state game law legality it's certainly morally correct in my mind. And if there's anyone on this forum that hasn't done it they've either hunted alone there entire life or are not telling the truth.
I went back to see what got you so worked up and it appears to be my assertion that Randy Newbergs show is a typical reality tv program, not real.
Hey if you want to tell yourself reality tv shows are real your certainly not alone.
If one wants to find someone on the internet to validate their opinions, any opinion it's easy enough to do, here's mine. Read the final paragraph "Bottom line".
https://skyaboveus.com/hunting-shooting/Best-Rifle-and-Caliber-for-Hunting-in-Colorado

 

[old roper]

Double K, If you figured law was wrong what not turn yourself in and fight it.

Why don't you give me address and I'll have DOW stop by.

Taylor, DK shot buck 2005. Laws have changed.

 

[Double K]

"And if there's anyone on this forum that hasn't done it they've either hunted alone there entire life or are not telling the truth"

There's a third group of hunters that have never put down a wounded animal for someone else in a hunting situation, those are the people that have never actually killed enough game to find themselves having to make the choice between doing the right thing and ending the suffering of a wounded animal or following the law to the letter.

 

[taylorce1]

Taylor, DK shot buck 2005. Laws have changed.

I haven't kept up with the changes, but I don't think "party hunting" was ever a felony offense. I'm sure it could be elevated to a felony depending on the situation. I could be wrong, and I'll just say currently it isn't a felony.

Your pretty wound up over this Taylor, your transparent in that when losing a debate you attack a person and not their opinions or facts.

First off I'm not wound up over the cartridge debate or Randy Newberg at all. We both have different opinions on what is a good elk cartridge, and who we find that we agree with who makes a living in the industry. I'm perfetly fine with my experiences not mirroring yours.


What gets me wound up is the lies you're posting. Like after saying "I had a like license" or "perfectly legal to kill an already mortally wounded animal to prevent loss". Number one you didn't have the correct tag which you admitted to previously, two it is never legal to kill big game without the proper license even if they are mortally wounded. Then you accused me of changing my narrative, when you have no problem doing the very thing you accused me of especially when it breaks Colorado game laws.

There are ways to legally handle the situation you described, even if the animal crossed a fence onto property you can't hunt. You chose not to handle it the correct way, and posted it on a public forum and don't like being called on it. My point is you lose all credibility when you start preaching morals and ethics when you get caught with your pants down in the middle of a lie after admittedly doing something illegal. I was perfectly fine letting the it go, but you had to complain about people using a double standard when you're the "pot calling the kettle".

 

[Double K]

Taylor

So mister I do everything down to the letter of the law how would you have handled the situation, try and make it believable.
I did a search on who you are, your just a pup! I'll cut you some slack because of your youth, after you've killed a couple hundred big game animals you'll lighten up a little.
Hint for this coming big game season, the only way you'll ever kill big bucks and bulls is by stop shooting those 2-3 old ones.