shootniron
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There is no such thing as a blind magazine with a hinged floorplate.
Blind magazines have NO floorplate.
600 Yard Elk Rifle Advice
- Thread starter Tackleberry1
- Start date
There is no such thing as a blind magazine with a hinged floorplate.
Blind magazines have NO floorplate.
You don't need a 26 inch barrel, 24 will do fine.
You do want something with velocity, a 30-06 with a 24 will do that.
I would get that and stick with a caliber that works.
Heavier bullets for the long shots, 175 minimum, 200 better.
You do need to find out if you can shoot 600 and your limitation.
You are not going to be able to do it without some kind of a rest of supported position.
For one hunt (or even one a year) I would not get excited about stainless.
Savage or Axis has a lot of low cost rifles that work well.
Cabellas has a good variety as does Sportsman's Warehouse.
There should be some good sales.
Removable magazines can get an issue if you loose it.
Blind mags are better for hunting (IMNSO)
If you miss its either not going to know you shot or its moving and you will not be able to hit it let alone kill it at that range.
You do want something with velocity, a 30-06 with a 24 will do that.
I would get that and stick with a caliber that works.
Heavier bullets for the long shots, 175 minimum, 200 better.
You do need to find out if you can shoot 600 and your limitation.
You are not going to be able to do it without some kind of a rest of supported position.
For one hunt (or even one a year) I would not get excited about stainless.
Savage or Axis has a lot of low cost rifles that work well.
Cabellas has a good variety as does Sportsman's Warehouse.
There should be some good sales.
Removable magazines can get an issue if you loose it.
Blind mags are better for hunting (IMNSO)
If you miss its either not going to know you shot or its moving and you will not be able to hit it let alone kill it at that range.
Shootbrownelk:
You are right.I agree with you.
There ARE some people who are skilled enough and shoot enough to know when they can make a 600 yd shot with confidence.I know a few.
I make no claims for myself.We all have our good days.Shooting a steel dinger or a water jug,I'm not scared of 600 yds.For myself,on a critter,hunting conditions I don't measure up.
Its not about what size group you can shoot at a target at 1000 yds.Its about where the first round cold hits .Every time.Thats different than walking it in.
One thing that is important to realize,we can't walk in a gun shop and buy a 600 yd rifle.I can't make a 600 yd hunting rifle.
It takes a 600 yd rifleman.That takes time,skill,and knowledge.
At some point,time,skill and knowledge also teaches humility.We get to know enough to know what is less predictable.
As far as weight...That 30-338 I built began as a Husky 5000 action.Its a magnum small ring.Its a light receiver.I used a 25 in Lilja#3 barrel.Not a pencil,but not heavy.
The stock is a 20 OZ Hi-Tec Specialties.I did truly blind magazine it.No floor plate,just a Krag trigger guard.
I compromised a bit and used a stainless steel bedding compound,but its as light ,or lighter,than the common 30-06 hunting rifle.
You are right.I agree with you.
There ARE some people who are skilled enough and shoot enough to know when they can make a 600 yd shot with confidence.I know a few.
I make no claims for myself.We all have our good days.Shooting a steel dinger or a water jug,I'm not scared of 600 yds.For myself,on a critter,hunting conditions I don't measure up.
Its not about what size group you can shoot at a target at 1000 yds.Its about where the first round cold hits .Every time.Thats different than walking it in.
One thing that is important to realize,we can't walk in a gun shop and buy a 600 yd rifle.I can't make a 600 yd hunting rifle.
It takes a 600 yd rifleman.That takes time,skill,and knowledge.
At some point,time,skill and knowledge also teaches humility.We get to know enough to know what is less predictable.
As far as weight...That 30-338 I built began as a Husky 5000 action.Its a magnum small ring.Its a light receiver.I used a 25 in Lilja#3 barrel.Not a pencil,but not heavy.
The stock is a 20 OZ Hi-Tec Specialties.I did truly blind magazine it.No floor plate,just a Krag trigger guard.
I compromised a bit and used a stainless steel bedding compound,but its as light ,or lighter,than the common 30-06 hunting rifle.
Yeah...I've been to North Carolina a time or two...I'd say that coming out of that beaver swamp on a cloudless November night and forced to sit around for around for hours was one of the most miserable experiences of my military career. Soaked through completely from the name tapes on down.
Still, that ain't got nothing compared to a few of the black tail hunts through the alder thickets or tree farms when the sleet is on that you get in SW Washington out north of Highway 508, out by Toutle, or further west outside Pe Ell.
I personally don't have a problem with a bottom mag or a floor plate, and the OP already hunts with a single shot so it doesn't seem to bother him much.
Jimro
For 600 yards on an elk a .300 Mag of any name would be a great choice. They shoot flat and have plenty of energy. I use a .300 Wby mag for elk with great results. I'd go with a 26" barrel to get the cartridges full potential. the .300 WSM could go 24" or 25". That's the reason you're using a mag in the first place.
The .340 Wyb mag is also a very good long range elk cartridge.
Lots of good guns to chose from, just depends on your budget. I like models with a short bolt throw that slides smoothly.
Take a look at the likes of the Tikka T3, Browning X Bolt, Sako 85, Weatherby Mark IV, Sauer 100 or 101, Steyr CL or SM, Mauser M12.
Scope wise I like Zeiss quite a bit with Meopta also. I like the top power to be around 12 to 15 with 3 or 4 on the low side.
A good sling makes makes life much easier as does a good pack that carries your rifle. I use and like this one quite a bit. http://www.eberlestock.com/X3 Lodrag Pack.htm
The .340 Wyb mag is also a very good long range elk cartridge.
Lots of good guns to chose from, just depends on your budget. I like models with a short bolt throw that slides smoothly.
Take a look at the likes of the Tikka T3, Browning X Bolt, Sako 85, Weatherby Mark IV, Sauer 100 or 101, Steyr CL or SM, Mauser M12.
Scope wise I like Zeiss quite a bit with Meopta also. I like the top power to be around 12 to 15 with 3 or 4 on the low side.
A good sling makes makes life much easier as does a good pack that carries your rifle. I use and like this one quite a bit. http://www.eberlestock.com/X3 Lodrag Pack.htm
I shot a Browning A-Bolt in 300 Win Mag for years and it meets your requirements. The DM is actually held in by the bottom metal and allows for quicker reloading over standard blind magazines. It come in stainless with comp stock and has a 26" barrel. I had a Leupold VX-III on mine and it served me very well. If you would consider a used rifle it is something you could look for.
I've sure been hearing a lot of talk lately about 600 yard - and further - elk shooting. Sadly, the great amount of conversation has to do with what cannon to use, and much less about the skill and logistics of said shootin..
I guess a guided hunt, with professional spotter/tracker folks is the best time to try this; if there is ever a good time.
Most of us realize that any of our high powered rifles that are capable of flinging a 150 +gr. projectile at nearly 3000 fps are capable of inflicting a lethal wound on elks at that distance. A harder case to make is whether the combination of rifle and shooter are capable of accurately delivering that wound. Too often, in hunting conditions, that isn't the case.
I would highly recommend that anyone desiring to do this should take their rifle, and a 16 inch gong, and go to a place where you can set up and shoot 600 yards. If by using a rest similar to what you might be provided with in the elk woods, you can hit that gong with a cold barrel, then maybe you're the kind of shooter who should do it.
This little exercise may be what it takes to help you decide that the noble elk should be shot at a more sensible range. jd
I guess a guided hunt, with professional spotter/tracker folks is the best time to try this; if there is ever a good time.
Most of us realize that any of our high powered rifles that are capable of flinging a 150 +gr. projectile at nearly 3000 fps are capable of inflicting a lethal wound on elks at that distance. A harder case to make is whether the combination of rifle and shooter are capable of accurately delivering that wound. Too often, in hunting conditions, that isn't the case.
I would highly recommend that anyone desiring to do this should take their rifle, and a 16 inch gong, and go to a place where you can set up and shoot 600 yards. If by using a rest similar to what you might be provided with in the elk woods, you can hit that gong with a cold barrel, then maybe you're the kind of shooter who should do it.
This little exercise may be what it takes to help you decide that the noble elk should be shot at a more sensible range. jd
To the OP: I've taken two 5 X 5 elk with a 26" barreled .300 Win Mag. The rifle is far more than necessary. With nearly 60 years of hunting experience I could NEVER recommend a 600 yard shot. I have a few trophies on my walls including one record book whitetail. Getting closer to a bull elk seen at 600 yards is not that difficult. If I hunt elk again I will carry my .270 The .280 or .30-06 are also great choices for an elk rifle. My longest elk shot was a little over 100 yards; my closest was about 25 yard (and he is on the wall.) In addition to my true trophies I have two huge Rubbermaid tubs filled with antlers from my hunting experience. Please see that my emphasis is experience - not bragging. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of hunters with greater shooting or hunting experience or skills. Please learn to be a hunter, not a long range sniper.
I have many many years as an elk hunter and also as a guide.
My best advice it to use the 30-06 you already have.
Use a good bullet that will expand at longer range and not blow up at long or short range. Nosler Partitions come to mind, but the good bonded bullets are fine too.
I never try to talk someone out of buying or building a new rifle, but I would try to talk you out of going on the hunt of a lifetime with a new rifle that you are not familiar with.
I have killed elk with a 308 and so has my wife and a few of my friends. Some out to good distances. It was just fine.
It's not the gun, it's the shooter.
If you are doing well with your existing rifle, bring it. If not, buy about 500 bullets and primers and enough powder to load it all. Then shoot about 480 rounds between now and the hunt. Bring 20 with you and you'll have more then enough ammo. (Especially if you train well with those 480 rounds. You'll probably come home with 19)
My best advice it to use the 30-06 you already have.
Use a good bullet that will expand at longer range and not blow up at long or short range. Nosler Partitions come to mind, but the good bonded bullets are fine too.
I never try to talk someone out of buying or building a new rifle, but I would try to talk you out of going on the hunt of a lifetime with a new rifle that you are not familiar with.
I have killed elk with a 308 and so has my wife and a few of my friends. Some out to good distances. It was just fine.
It's not the gun, it's the shooter.
If you are doing well with your existing rifle, bring it. If not, buy about 500 bullets and primers and enough powder to load it all. Then shoot about 480 rounds between now and the hunt. Bring 20 with you and you'll have more then enough ammo. (Especially if you train well with those 480 rounds. You'll probably come home with 19)
If you are going to be fumble fingered and drop something, it's less of a pain to wipe mud or snow off a round or two than to get it out of a box magazine ...... just sayin' ........ and you will never forget to bring or lose an internal magazine. I know these things because I have been taking little kids hunting for more than a decade ...... and Murphy goes where kids go.
Best advice thus far! Familiarity and skill with one's equipment is by far the best thing to have..... the shooter is nearly always the greatest variable, and skills are the hardest thing to get, and the easiest to lose....
.... As Col. Cooper wrote so long ago, when asked "What is the best rifle?", "Why, the one you have, of course!"
The OP mentioned that the trigger on his current rifle was "marginal" ..... no reason to suffer a poor trigger, what with all the good aftermarket ones out there.
OTH, if the OP is dead set on being able to shoot elk out to 600 ...... then his current 18" barreled carbine is not really the ticket...... but a 26" barreled magnum is not going to be a magic wand that will enable him to make a 600 yard kill shot ...... that'll take ammunition and time, as well.
p.s. ......I think an 18" 30-06 is a silly idea ...... all that case capacity and so little barrel to use it in ........ if one wants a handy gun, get it in an efficient chambering ........
I have hunted elk for many years as well and while not a paid guide, have taken a lot of people on their first elk hunt. Shooting elk at 600 yards is not to be taken lightly. I have tracked elk (shot by others) that had frontal chest hits and easy to follow blood trails for miles, hit with 7mm mags, .270s and less so with .30-06s at ranges under 300 yards. And I have seen many elk, and shot them myself with .308s and .30-06 out to 450 yards and .33-.37 caliber out to 650 yards. Elk are tough. Getting closer is always a better option than shooting an elk past about 300. While it might not always be possible, only highly skilled marksmen who understand wind calls and game behavior have any business shooting at some of the ranges people claim or want to shoot elk. I see carcasses in the woods every year that were shot, and not collected and I would venture to say most are shots that should not have been taken.
Practice and training are the key. Lots of rounds downrange holding 6" groups from prone, sitting, kneeling, etc. to define the distances you can still hit at. Then run 500 yards and take a shot...repeat 10 times and see where the group is. That is more important than a whizzbang new rifle. If the OP gets a new rifle, still, practice and shoot it a lot, with elevated heart rate and get proficient with it in all sorts of conditions. Of the 35+ elk I have shot, still have not managed to shoot one off a bench on the range.
Practice and training are the key. Lots of rounds downrange holding 6" groups from prone, sitting, kneeling, etc. to define the distances you can still hit at. Then run 500 yards and take a shot...repeat 10 times and see where the group is. That is more important than a whizzbang new rifle. If the OP gets a new rifle, still, practice and shoot it a lot, with elevated heart rate and get proficient with it in all sorts of conditions. Of the 35+ elk I have shot, still have not managed to shoot one off a bench on the range.
I will add 2 things more here:
#1. I own a 30-06 with a 19 inch barrel and a 2X scout scope. I have fired 11 shots at game with it so far and I have killed 7 deer, 2 antelope and 2 elk.
No animal so far has taken 2 shots.
The longest shot I have made was ranged at 502. This using a 2X scope and a 180 grain bullet.
So you can see why I am not overly impressed with gidgets and ultra modern gizmos. My load chronographs at "only" 2600 FPS from the muzzle and I am zeroed at 200. So I know that I must hold up 5.5 feet at 500. That's what I did and the antelope was killed. The point is that I had to HOLD. If I'd have been using my 270 Win with 130 gr bullets at 3150 FPS I would have had to HOLD only 3 feet over the center of the chest. But no gun lets you hold dead on at 500 or 600 yards unless you are zeroed at that range. If you zero at 200 or 250 or even 300, you STILL HAVE TO HOLD over. So if you know what to hold, and you have the skill to hold it at that range, you hold.
If you can't hold steady within a 6" wobble pattern you are too far away and and nothing you can shoot is going to help you until you gain more skill.
#2.
Go back and read MarkCOs last post.
#1. I own a 30-06 with a 19 inch barrel and a 2X scout scope. I have fired 11 shots at game with it so far and I have killed 7 deer, 2 antelope and 2 elk.
No animal so far has taken 2 shots.
The longest shot I have made was ranged at 502. This using a 2X scope and a 180 grain bullet.
So you can see why I am not overly impressed with gidgets and ultra modern gizmos. My load chronographs at "only" 2600 FPS from the muzzle and I am zeroed at 200. So I know that I must hold up 5.5 feet at 500. That's what I did and the antelope was killed. The point is that I had to HOLD. If I'd have been using my 270 Win with 130 gr bullets at 3150 FPS I would have had to HOLD only 3 feet over the center of the chest. But no gun lets you hold dead on at 500 or 600 yards unless you are zeroed at that range. If you zero at 200 or 250 or even 300, you STILL HAVE TO HOLD over. So if you know what to hold, and you have the skill to hold it at that range, you hold.
If you can't hold steady within a 6" wobble pattern you are too far away and and nothing you can shoot is going to help you until you gain more skill.
#2.
Go back and read MarkCOs last post.
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Since we are talking about modern firearms and not laser beams, most with a basic understanding of ballistics don't take the term "Flat" as a literal one. The fact that I did not say there would be zero drop at every distance should tip most off as well. In this case "Flat" would mean 22 inches of less drop for a 180 gr NAB at 600 yards between a .300 Wyb mag vs a .30-06.
Worc said:
Which is relevant how?
Nothing shoots "flat" enough to compensate for an inaccurate range call at that kind of distance.
Who cares if you have to put ~3 MOA more elevation on the gun, you still need to spin the knob, and if you get the range call wrong, or your predicted trajectory doesn't match reality (which is pretty common) then you have the same result, a cripple or a miss.
Range, even on an angle up or down, is fairly easy to measure with today's gadgets ........ doping for the wind at that range, especially in the mountains, where it may be going in several directions along the bullet's path? That's a whole different thing.
Add in time of flight, which gets to be significant past about 400 yards, even for "flat shooting" cartridges ....... the shooter has to be sure the animal will not move between the time he shoots and the time the bullet gets there...... 1/2 a second is a long time, considering a deer can move quickly when they want to.