Been contemplating a new upper for my AR-15, with the application being deer hunting (I'm not comfortable shooting deer with .223 I know it can be done, I just dont like it) So, between the 6.5 Grendel and the 6.8 SPC does anyone have experience with both? Is there a preferred cartridge between those for reloading ammo? I know neither is going to be on the shelf at walmart, but expense wise is either significantly more cost effective? Lot of questions there i know but hoping for some experienced input, thanks!
6.5 Grendel VS. 6.8 SPC comparisons?
- Thread starter Madball6
- Start date
This again?
http://thefiringline.com/forums/search.php?searchid=5190982
The Grendel has match bullets available with better BC, but they are not something I would even consider using for big game. The Grendel's hunting bullets aren't really better than the SPC, so when the target is meat they are about the same. Realistically, both drop below 1000 ft-lbs of energy about 300 yards.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/search.php?searchid=5190982
The Grendel has match bullets available with better BC, but they are not something I would even consider using for big game. The Grendel's hunting bullets aren't really better than the SPC, so when the target is meat they are about the same. Realistically, both drop below 1000 ft-lbs of energy about 300 yards.
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glockcompact
New member
I have spent hours and hours on the internet looking up these two cartriges prior to buying my 6.5 Grendel. To be honest I believe they are both excellent cartridges.
My short answer would be if you never intend to shoot past 300 yards then the 6.8 SPC might be your best bet. In my eyes the 6.5 doesn't do anything better then the 6.8 at these ranges. Infact at very close ranges (sub 25 yards) the 6.8 would be superior, not necessarily because of knock down power, but because of lack of recoil. The great thing about the 223/556 is the recoil is so low that you can get back on target very fast for multiple shots. I believe the same is true for the 6.8. The 6.5 kicks about 20% more than the 223 in my experience. Still a mild recoil weapon but you would be slower between shots. However if you intend to go beyond 300 yards then the 6.5 is an excellent choice. Both rounds will beat out the .223 at any range. The 6.8 does have the advantage of a major ammunition manufacturer backing it up. However the 6.5G is not that hard to get ahold of either. You will not find any 6.5G on the shelves as of right now though. I'm not sure about 6.8. I chose the 6.5G because it does still beat out the 223 at any range and I would like to have a long rang AR someday. I figure I can have one round that does both. I gambled a little and went with the 6.5G. It has since grown and now has Hornady making ammo and brass for it. I also believe Black Hills makes ammo for it now too. I have been shooting the Wolf Gold and have had good luck with it. I have about 500 rounds of the Wolf through my Alexander Arms 16" tactical and I have not had any failures. It's a great little shooter and I'm very happy with the weapon.
My short answer would be if you never intend to shoot past 300 yards then the 6.8 SPC might be your best bet. In my eyes the 6.5 doesn't do anything better then the 6.8 at these ranges. Infact at very close ranges (sub 25 yards) the 6.8 would be superior, not necessarily because of knock down power, but because of lack of recoil. The great thing about the 223/556 is the recoil is so low that you can get back on target very fast for multiple shots. I believe the same is true for the 6.8. The 6.5 kicks about 20% more than the 223 in my experience. Still a mild recoil weapon but you would be slower between shots. However if you intend to go beyond 300 yards then the 6.5 is an excellent choice. Both rounds will beat out the .223 at any range. The 6.8 does have the advantage of a major ammunition manufacturer backing it up. However the 6.5G is not that hard to get ahold of either. You will not find any 6.5G on the shelves as of right now though. I'm not sure about 6.8. I chose the 6.5G because it does still beat out the 223 at any range and I would like to have a long rang AR someday. I figure I can have one round that does both. I gambled a little and went with the 6.5G. It has since grown and now has Hornady making ammo and brass for it. I also believe Black Hills makes ammo for it now too. I have been shooting the Wolf Gold and have had good luck with it. I have about 500 rounds of the Wolf through my Alexander Arms 16" tactical and I have not had any failures. It's a great little shooter and I'm very happy with the weapon.
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glockcompact
New member
The 123 grainers will hold above 1000 ft/lbs for past 425 yards in the Grendel.
Edit: Correction, I looked it up in my data sheet. According to my data a 123 gr lapua with the initial velocity of 2600 ft/sec and a bc of .547 will hold above 1000 ft/lbs for over 550 yards.
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Sorry, tried looking in old posts didnt see anything directly comparing. Clicked your link and got a "post could not be found" so i guess its lost somewhere in the interweb
I'm not trying to rehash old discussions but as a new member to these forums (3 weeks) There is alot of old posts to sift through and im am sure i will post other questions that have been previously answered. I only ask that the more senior members here bare with me and my inexperience and help with their knowledge when they can. Thank you for your replies and honestly I'm hoping for more of them, as I can afford shooting as a sport, I can't afford to make big mistakes on new purchases. As such I look for as much input as i can get when looking for information on a new purchase.Thanks again for your help and knowledge.
-Keith
glockcompact
New member
me:
bedlamite:
Fair enough then I looked up the Hornady 123 gr A-max. With initial velocity of 2600 ft/sec and bc of .510 they hold 1000 ft/lbs till 550 yards.
I also made a correction in my post #6
bedlamite:
Fair enough then I looked up the Hornady 123 gr A-max. With initial velocity of 2600 ft/sec and bc of .510 they hold 1000 ft/lbs till 550 yards.
I also made a correction in my post #6
BusGunner007
New member
WHY isn't this cartridge getting more attention?
http://www.sskindustries.com/6_5mpc.htm
6.5 MPC...
The 6.5 MPC (Multi Purpose Cartridge) is a SSK development urged by Brian Hormberg (USMC) based on the 5.56 cartridge shortened and opened to 6.5 MM and the same OAL as the 5.56. In the M-16-AR-15 rifles it utilizes the 5.56 bolt and magazines as well as all other parts except the barrel itself. Its design adapts it to a short Close Quarter Battle rifle with a 12” barrel moving a 107 6.5 SMK at 2400 FPS with superior full auto controllability and excellent accuracy. The 12” barrel model easily puts it into the realistic 300+ yard combat category and longer barrels stretch that realistic combat range considerably further.
Factory ammunition is not yet available for the 6.5 MPC; however we are working on that. Ready to load brass and dies are in stock.
The 120 grain BT is near maximum bullet weight for good performance. 85 grain is about the least weight for good performance. Some 140 grain bullets may be used but ballistically are counterproductive.
http://www.sskindustries.com/6_5mpc.htm
6.5 MPC...
The 6.5 MPC (Multi Purpose Cartridge) is a SSK development urged by Brian Hormberg (USMC) based on the 5.56 cartridge shortened and opened to 6.5 MM and the same OAL as the 5.56. In the M-16-AR-15 rifles it utilizes the 5.56 bolt and magazines as well as all other parts except the barrel itself. Its design adapts it to a short Close Quarter Battle rifle with a 12” barrel moving a 107 6.5 SMK at 2400 FPS with superior full auto controllability and excellent accuracy. The 12” barrel model easily puts it into the realistic 300+ yard combat category and longer barrels stretch that realistic combat range considerably further.
Factory ammunition is not yet available for the 6.5 MPC; however we are working on that. Ready to load brass and dies are in stock.
The 120 grain BT is near maximum bullet weight for good performance. 85 grain is about the least weight for good performance. Some 140 grain bullets may be used but ballistically are counterproductive.
Other than zeroing it, i have absolutely no plans to put any of these rounds through paper, just deer (well and maybe hog though i still like the .223 for that) and in my hunting area there is little to no chance of a 300 yard shot on anything. I would expect most to be sub 150 yd shots.
glockcompact
New member
Then I would say the 6.8 would be a serious contender for ya!
glockcompact
New member
I'm not so sure about that. I wouldn't recomend it on say an elk out of a Grendel but from what I've read it ill drop a deer with no problems.
glockcompact
New member
In my eyes anything under 25 yards the 6.8 wins. Anything over 300 yards the 6.5G wins. Anything in between is a wash.
thesheepdog
New member
I say 6.5 because of the choice of bullets for reloading. And I own one. But I never have shot it past 120 yards because I don't have a good 500+ yard range nearby. Soon I will test it and see how much better it is ballistically than my 16" DD M4 at 400 yards. We shall see!
Both calibers are certainly more powerful than 5.56, which makes them a legal choice in some states.
The bigger differences are in smaller things. They use the same lowers, uppers, BCG, sights, triggers etc. In hardware, the barrel, bolt, and magazine are what is different, and you can get them from the same makers, to boot.
What it boils down to is what incremental increase in ballistic performance do you want? The focus of the 6.8SPC development was more lethality than 5.56 at combat ranges, from a 14.5" barrel. The 6.5G focus was more precision at long ranges on a competition range, using 20"+ barrels. The case design was optimized to promote these different goals, and is exactly why they are so different.
Long case, short bullets in a larger diameter carry more initial energy, and in the typical 16" carbine AR, offer a short, light handy package. Short fat case, long bullets in a smaller diameter carry slightly less energy,even from longer barrels, but the bullet carries it further due to it's aerodynamic efficiency. That starts showing results, but it's mostly beyond combat ranges.
The important factor is where you want the power, and the break is about 250-350 yards depending on load. I chose the 6.8SPC because ballistic efficiency doesn't contribute much inside 350 yards, which is a long shot hunting whitetail. The .30-30 didn't become the nation's #1 deer cartridge for 100 years knocking them down out beyond 300 yards, and I've never had that shot hunting in the last 30 years.
Since I wasn't going to carry a caliber that was set up for a small percent shot, I got out of .30 cal battle rifles and went to the AR in 6.8. It matches what most hunters shooting whitetails and hogs in edge environments actually need. Power under 350 yards in a small light carbine.
That's why it's the #1 alternate caliber and has dozens of suppliers. Just get the SPCII stuff, which is largely all that is offered. And you can buy ammo off the shelf, even if it is Rem 115 OTM at the local Academy Sports. What you can also buy is full power tactical loads, and for the price of a decent scope, enough equipment to make handloads. Those are capable of reaching 3,000 fps from a 16" barrel.
Bill Wilson of custom 1911 building has no problem knocking down hogs on his Texas property with the 6.8, and offers his for sale. Check Bison, White Oak, and ARPerformance for uppers, barrels, bolts, and accessories. The guys at 6.8forum have lots of experience and shoot BOTH calibers, you'll find straight answers there on it's performance. It's also easier to search, it's ALL 6.8.
Choose which you prefer, I built mine to hunt, and set it up for that.
The bigger differences are in smaller things. They use the same lowers, uppers, BCG, sights, triggers etc. In hardware, the barrel, bolt, and magazine are what is different, and you can get them from the same makers, to boot.
What it boils down to is what incremental increase in ballistic performance do you want? The focus of the 6.8SPC development was more lethality than 5.56 at combat ranges, from a 14.5" barrel. The 6.5G focus was more precision at long ranges on a competition range, using 20"+ barrels. The case design was optimized to promote these different goals, and is exactly why they are so different.
Long case, short bullets in a larger diameter carry more initial energy, and in the typical 16" carbine AR, offer a short, light handy package. Short fat case, long bullets in a smaller diameter carry slightly less energy,even from longer barrels, but the bullet carries it further due to it's aerodynamic efficiency. That starts showing results, but it's mostly beyond combat ranges.
The important factor is where you want the power, and the break is about 250-350 yards depending on load. I chose the 6.8SPC because ballistic efficiency doesn't contribute much inside 350 yards, which is a long shot hunting whitetail. The .30-30 didn't become the nation's #1 deer cartridge for 100 years knocking them down out beyond 300 yards, and I've never had that shot hunting in the last 30 years.
Since I wasn't going to carry a caliber that was set up for a small percent shot, I got out of .30 cal battle rifles and went to the AR in 6.8. It matches what most hunters shooting whitetails and hogs in edge environments actually need. Power under 350 yards in a small light carbine.
That's why it's the #1 alternate caliber and has dozens of suppliers. Just get the SPCII stuff, which is largely all that is offered. And you can buy ammo off the shelf, even if it is Rem 115 OTM at the local Academy Sports. What you can also buy is full power tactical loads, and for the price of a decent scope, enough equipment to make handloads. Those are capable of reaching 3,000 fps from a 16" barrel.
Bill Wilson of custom 1911 building has no problem knocking down hogs on his Texas property with the 6.8, and offers his for sale. Check Bison, White Oak, and ARPerformance for uppers, barrels, bolts, and accessories. The guys at 6.8forum have lots of experience and shoot BOTH calibers, you'll find straight answers there on it's performance. It's also easier to search, it's ALL 6.8.
Choose which you prefer, I built mine to hunt, and set it up for that.
After shooting with a 6X47 Rem in a bolt action I wouldn't discount the 6X45 cartridge for deer at the ranges you are talking about. I'm able to meet the ft-lb and bullet diameter requirements here in CO with a short 20" barrel. I'm running a 1:12 twist and it will stabalize up to 80 grain bullets.
I took a pronghorn at a little over 300 yards this last season using a 70 grain Nosler Ballistic tip (varmint bullet), however at the speeds (3060 MV) I'm shooting at they don't have the explosive expansion at 200+ yards. However I do need to make sure that I don't get too close using this bullet, luckily pronghorn like to keep their distance. I'm looking into some GS custom bullets in the 70 grain range to use for hunting that should give me a bullet that will hold up to close range impacts much better thant the NBT.
I took a pronghorn at a little over 300 yards this last season using a 70 grain Nosler Ballistic tip (varmint bullet), however at the speeds (3060 MV) I'm shooting at they don't have the explosive expansion at 200+ yards. However I do need to make sure that I don't get too close using this bullet, luckily pronghorn like to keep their distance. I'm looking into some GS custom bullets in the 70 grain range to use for hunting that should give me a bullet that will hold up to close range impacts much better thant the NBT.