6.5 based on .223 case?
- Thread starter johnwilliamson062
- Start date
eastbank said:
I love my 6X47, but I'm about to go to the 6X45 as .222 RM brass is getting hard to locate. I haven't had much luck with .204 brass without annealing first, and even then only have about a 75% success rate. I have an issue with my resizing die and need to send it back to Hornady to be fixed or replaced.
I found H335 and 70 grain NBT bullets to be my go to load. I get nearly 3100 fps with this combo out of my 20" barreled Stevens 200. My only regret with this rifle is not going with a 10 or faster twist, my rifle has a 12 twist and I haven't found a bullet heavier than 70 grains it likes.
One thing you don't have issues with in a 40XB is magazine length, which is another reason for my going 6X45. The 6mm bullets and the 222 Rem Mag case just aren't a great pairing in most magazine and especially the AR magazines. That's why most new AR cartridges like 6.5 PCC AR, .277 Wolverine, .300 BLK shorten the .223 case.
That's the 6x45 - one of the best AR15 wildcats out there IMO. If I recall correctly it will throw a 90gr accubond at about 2700 and more or less mimic the supersonic distance of M118LR, and maintain enough velocity to expand out to about 400y depending on elevation. All without using any non-standard parts other than the barrel, and with none of the bolt, extractor, and magazine issues associated with overly large bolt face cartridges like the 6.5 Grendel.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
No response from Illirian Engineering and having trouble finding anyone who advertises barrels in 6.5 PCC.
I'llhave to go ahead and cal Illirian. Hate it when companies have websites that list e-mails but don't respond to querys. Tempted to just send them the money, but hate to do that without confirming they are active. Such small operations are unpredictable.
I'llhave to go ahead and cal Illirian. Hate it when companies have websites that list e-mails but don't respond to querys. Tempted to just send them the money, but hate to do that without confirming they are active. Such small operations are unpredictable.
stagpanther
New member
Hmmm...
I hand-load 6.5 for grendel, 6.5 284 Norma and 6.5 creedmoor rifles--and it is a challenging bullet to find the right bullet/powder/seating combination for semi-automatic configurations. I don't know anything about the 6.5 PCC--but just glancing at the base case and seeing that the shoulder is (apparently) not knocked back leads me to believe that you are going to be very limited in your choice of bullets because the case mouth will not be able to grip a long secant ogive bullet and still be kept to an acceptable COL--but that's just a guess.
I hand-load 6.5 for grendel, 6.5 284 Norma and 6.5 creedmoor rifles--and it is a challenging bullet to find the right bullet/powder/seating combination for semi-automatic configurations. I don't know anything about the 6.5 PCC--but just glancing at the base case and seeing that the shoulder is (apparently) not knocked back leads me to believe that you are going to be very limited in your choice of bullets because the case mouth will not be able to grip a long secant ogive bullet and still be kept to an acceptable COL--but that's just a guess.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
I heard back from BHW today. They still have the tooling, but are not making those barrels with any regularity. Since I've not heard back from Illrian I am unsure where I could get the reloading equipment for the cartridge. I think I jumped to late on this one, or maybe waited just long enough.
stagpanther
New member
Call em back and ask them about the development of a 25 - 264lbc (I heard from an inside source it was under serious consideration for development). My intuition tells me that 25 cal in a grendel case would be a fantastic combo!
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
I'm researching that cartridge now. I think it probably has the same issues as the Grendel.
stagpanther
New member
I built a couple of Grendel/264 lbc's and yes they had some issues at first--but my understanding is that the platform has matured and they have been ironed out--what issues remain?
A 25 cal out of that case should be high-velocity devestation--I'm getting around 3000 fps with a fairly plain flat-base 87 gr bullet in a 25 45 Sharps (using an unmodified 5.56 case except for a slight neck-up) Due to the Gredels knocked back shoulder there should be great advantages in both propellant capacity and higher BC bullets I would think.
tahunua001
New member
technically the 6.5 grendel is based on 220 russian rather than x39... but the end result is basically a 6.5x39
there is the 25-45 sharps which is a 223 necked up to 243, which is somewhat similar to what you're looking for. then you are certainly brave. I ordered special grendel mags. even though they use the standard mag profiles, the followers and feed lips are very different from factory 223, enough so that I can instantly tell the difference between the two.
stagpanther
New member
257
tahunua001
New member
oops, one of them not quite 6.5s 
Sorry for all the guys that may have had trouble getting in touch with us,
lots of Issues with the website/email server...our default email address
is:
illirianengineering@yahoo.com
You can follow us on ARF.com with realtime end user load data and field reports the link is below:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/518663_6_5mm_Patriot_Combat_Cartridge__6_5_PCC__Test_subject_pics_added_on_13.html&page=41
We are also working on finding more cost effective ways on getting barrels and dies produced and passing on the sayings to the end user.
Thanks again.
lots of Issues with the website/email server...our default email address
is:
illirianengineering@yahoo.com
You can follow us on ARF.com with realtime end user load data and field reports the link is below:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/518663_6_5mm_Patriot_Combat_Cartridge__6_5_PCC__Test_subject_pics_added_on_13.html&page=41
We are also working on finding more cost effective ways on getting barrels and dies produced and passing on the sayings to the end user.
Thanks again.
Hunter Customs
New member
If I was going to build something other then a 223 on the AR platform the 25-45 Sharps would be my choice.
The reason for this is, it's suppose to be very close to the old 250-3000 Savage ballistics wise when using 87gr bullets.
I have an old 250-3000 Savage and know just how good that old cartridge is.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter
The 25-45 gets good numbers, however, it has two or three main
limitations:
>The .257 Cal projectiles were designed mostly for higher capacity/velocity
cases like the .257 Roberts...and thus a higher expansion threshold.
>There are not that many .257 Cal projectiles with high BC's available...although this is getting better...
>Using full length .223 Rem. cases (45mm) in the 25-45 round limits which
projectiles you can use say 60gr. to 100gr. pills, the higher BC pills will not
properly seat in the case without trimming the necks down.
I do however like the quarter bore a lot and they do come close to the 6.5mm based rounds like the 6.5mm PCC round.
limitations:
>The .257 Cal projectiles were designed mostly for higher capacity/velocity
cases like the .257 Roberts...and thus a higher expansion threshold.
>There are not that many .257 Cal projectiles with high BC's available...although this is getting better...
>Using full length .223 Rem. cases (45mm) in the 25-45 round limits which
projectiles you can use say 60gr. to 100gr. pills, the higher BC pills will not
properly seat in the case without trimming the necks down.
I do however like the quarter bore a lot and they do come close to the 6.5mm based rounds like the 6.5mm PCC round.
stagpanther
New member
I've developed some very good loads for my 25 x 45 with 90 gr gamekings. Sharp's is gradually developing and releasing new loads--I think they have a new 100 gr cartridge out. But like the 5.56 there's only so much space for a long bullet. I wish nosler made a 257 ballistic silver tip around 90 to 100 grs--I bet it would be stellar in the 25 x 45.
Txhillbilly
New member
I recently put together a 6.5 x 6.8 AR-15 upper. It's just a necked down 6.8 SPC case,then trimmed to 1.620". I already shoot a 260 Remington,6.5 Creedmoor,and 6.5-06,so I have plenty of 6.5mm bullets setting around.
I wanted a lite weight suppressed hunting rifle for varmints-hogs-etc. to use my nightvision scope with and this cartridge seems to fit the bill.
I'll mainly shoot 100 gr bullets from it,but will also use 95-123 gr bullets and may try to use a 160 gr bullet sub-sonic with it,if I can figure out a safe/good powder to use for it.
I bought a 16" AR Performance barrel - Mid length gas, 1-8.5 twist ,5R rifling. Using the 6.8 magazines,it allows you to have a COAL of 2.300" where if you use a cartridge based off the 223 Remington,most magazines limit you to a 2.260-2.270" COAL.
Here's a pic of a 6.5 x 6.8 case compared to a 260 Remington (left),and 6.5 Creedmoor (right).
Picture of the rifle. I'll put my ACE skeleton stock back on the lower after I finish load development. This thing is as quiet as a pellet rifle with my suppressor!
I wanted a lite weight suppressed hunting rifle for varmints-hogs-etc. to use my nightvision scope with and this cartridge seems to fit the bill.
I'll mainly shoot 100 gr bullets from it,but will also use 95-123 gr bullets and may try to use a 160 gr bullet sub-sonic with it,if I can figure out a safe/good powder to use for it.
I bought a 16" AR Performance barrel - Mid length gas, 1-8.5 twist ,5R rifling. Using the 6.8 magazines,it allows you to have a COAL of 2.300" where if you use a cartridge based off the 223 Remington,most magazines limit you to a 2.260-2.270" COAL.
Here's a pic of a 6.5 x 6.8 case compared to a 260 Remington (left),and 6.5 Creedmoor (right).
Picture of the rifle. I'll put my ACE skeleton stock back on the lower after I finish load development. This thing is as quiet as a pellet rifle with my suppressor!
