.54 Pistol Cartridges

I'm fairly certain that period round ball ammunition of this style was not lubricated. I do remember reading about some leather lubricated patches that were installed around British round ball ammunition.

Steve
 
Thanks guys, I'll have to admit I was sad after all of this happened.

I am going to try the smaller .509" balls next. If those have the same problem, I'm not sure what do except go to even smaller .500" balls.

I did do some calculating. It appears that .69 caliber musket cartridges were loaded with .65 balls. By doing the math, I found out that for a direct correlation to my smaller bore I should in fact be using exactly .509" balls!

Maybe my balls were too big all along. ;)

I'll have to try it and see. I just got done buying a "super pistol rod" from Dixie Gun Works. Hopefully it will prove more durable than the wood one from Track of the Wolf.
 
I wouldn't lube the cartridge. Hot days the lube can compromise the powder. At most lightly lube the balls and stick with the smaller balls.

BTW, great looking cartridges.
 
Thanks Gary! I am going to make some more cartridges using a smaller diameter mandrel, the .509" balls, and probably a reduced 45 grain powder charge to cut down on residue. I think 45 grains is plenty enough for target shooting and 54 grains felt very hot. I'll also be sure to tie the double half hitches between the powder chamber and ball tighter so the threading doesn't jam. Then, every five shots or so, a spit patch or two should keep things running smoothly.
 
The documentation I provided above indicates a ball diameter of .525" for a .54 caliber pistol.

With .002" of paper on either side of the ball, that works out to .529" total diameter. Allow a little bit for the wrinkles in the paper and you've got perhaps .530-.535.

This should load easily on a clean barrel.

It may be that these guns were not intended for repeated reloading in one session, but more of a single-shot affair, but I don't know this for certain.

What kind of powder are you using? Edit: From your picture, it looks like you are using Goex. Should be OK with that. I found Shuetzen to be very dirty.

Steve
 
I found one site that said the part of the cartridge with the ball was lightly greased but they also said that accuracy was not an issue when those cartridges were actually used.
 
The only paper cartridge that I am familiar with that has lubrication applied to the paper is the British Enfield cartridge for rifled arms.

Steve
 
Interesting guys. Well the paper I am using is newsprint minus the print, it is very thin. The gun hopelessly jammed while loading the 6th round. I believe that the string needs to be factored into the equation for thickness, maybe not.

So... Does anyone know how many shots a smoothbore musket like a Brown Bess or 1842 Springfield should be able to fire without becoming impossible to load? Seems like if the cartridges are properly sized for the pistol, it shouldn't jam in just 6 shots.

I also should mention that even on the 2nd shot, it was already too stiff to load with my pistols ramrod... I am so confused!! How hard should the ball me to load on the first shot? Should it be very loose?

I am also using the historically correct 130th of 1 lb of powder for a charge, which equals 54 grains, 2FG GOEX. Is that too much? Do you think that is causing too much powder fouling?

Thanks for helping me troubleshoot this guys, I am just trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong so I can finally get the formula for these cartridges right.
 
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I believe that the string needs to be factored into the equation for thickness, maybe not.
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Hmm, that's true, I forgot about the string.

I've never fired smoothbore arms using period ammunition so I can't speak much to how many shots you can expect to get off.

In N-SSA competition I shoot my .69 smothbore with a .678 round ball rolled beetween two files and triple-coated in Lee Alox. It's a tight enough fit to cause a gas piston effect when loading. I know others shoot much smaller balls with great success (better than me).

In our SB competitions it is unlikely that you will shoot more than 10 shots in any course of fire as the events are typically 3 minutes long. I notice towards the end of the course of fire that loading is definitely harder.

It may very well be that you are discovering the inherent limitations of the firearm with period ammunition.

Steve
 
It may very well be that you are discovering the inherent limitations of the firearm with period ammunition.
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Indeed. Perhaps the original guns in military service also suffered from issues during reloading.

The head of the ram rod on my horse pistol miked out at almost exactly .54, so the exact same diameter as the bore. I noticed while shooting that the rod wouldn't even get very far past the muzzle before the fouling kept it from moving. So, I sanded down the diameter of the head and it now mikes out at .505". In addition, I put a screw into the threads at the rear of the rod and filed the screw head to match the diameter of the threaded brass end piece. Now, instead of the sharp concave thread tip, it's now perfectly smooth and much more comfortable to use.

I would just love to get the gun to be able to shoot 10 shots or so before gumming up badly enough to not be able to use the pistol's own ramrod, as how it would be loaded in the field.

I also used my digital calipers to measure my paper thickness and it is .002" thick, so just as thick as the Lowe's masking paper.

I am going to form a mandrel from a 1/2" thick dowel rod and will be sure to load the cartridges "tighter". That combined with the .509" balls should help things I think.

I'll keep everyone updated on the progress! :D
 
I understand wanting to be historically accurate but if you want the thing to shoot make paper cartridges with just the powder charge and use a PRB.
 
I understand wanting to be historically accurate but if you want the thing to shoot make paper cartridges with just the powder charge and use a PRB.
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How? I am not sure how to do that without the string.

Also, I would prefer to load using historically correct cartridges if possible. That's part of the fun and appeal for me. I can always load with a lubed patch and round ball when I want as that's worked super well so far. But loading with original style cartridges... that's a whole new level of fun.

I just need to make it work a little better...
 
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One thing to bear in mind about these pistols is that they were generally fired once and then the cold steel (swords) came into play. I doubt if any dragoon, light cavalryman ever fired a dozen rounds in the course of a cavalry battle. Don't be disappointed that you can't go out and fire a cartridge box full in one session.
 
I understand.

But that's not going to keep me from trying LOL! :D

Okay, so I just got back from the Home Depot with a 1/2" dowel rod. I cut it down to manageable size and sanded one end into a half sphere shape.

I rolled up a new cartridge with the .509" ball, making sure to keep the paper and string tight and especially to have the string tight around the neck of the cartridge. I think the new former is working far better than the close pin I was using. The finished cartridge looked much nicer with fewer wrinkles.

I didn't put powder in, and instead tore the paper were it would be if loading, and put the package down the bore. To compare, I also removed the powder from one of my older .520" cartridges for comparison.

The .509 cartridge slid right down the bore easily, making slight contact with the sides of the bore. The .520" cartridge was a much firmer fit, actually had to press down hard with my thumb. I noticed some inconsistency with the .520" cartridges when loading at the range, that got worse with each shot so I am thinking my paper and string weren't tight enough around the ball and that coupled with the fouling is what caused the ball to get stuck but a smaller ball might well still be needed.

I will try and roll another, tight cartridge with a .520" ball and see if it is still easy to load. If not, I think I will make a batch of .509" cartridges and go test them at the range for accuracy and ease of loading.

Hopefully it goes better than last time! If not, I have a "super pistol rod" coming from Dixie Gun Works that should make removing a stuck ball much easier.

PS: I am wondering if I should downgrade my charge by about 20%, to 44 grains, to see if that cuts down on fouling residue. Does anyone think that will help?
 
I would suspect that you will find a more efficient burn at a less-than-full service charge. Almost certainly find higher accuracy that way also.

Steve
 
Okay everyone, I have ten new cartridges loaded with the smaller .509" balls and a new properly sized mandrel:

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The whole cartridge is a lot tighter now. I predict these will load and shoot quite a bit easier, but will still group well enough. I will have to test them though, but since it's so cold right now I'm not sure when I'll get to the range. I also got my "super pistol rod" from Dixie Gun Works today and it seems to be pretty decent, basically a rigid plastic stick.

Stay tuned, I'll let you all know of any new progress. :)
 
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