jhgreasemonkey
New member
Whoa....that sounded like a personal attack. Socrates has contibuted much to this forum. I for one value his opinion.
.500 S&W- Magnum Research vs S&W
- Thread starter forest15
- Start date
Thanks.
Please post pictures of these animals...
I'll ask LH again: HOW did you get your gun into MO? Did you fly in through South Africa? 2009 the guys are going to Zim, and, current law prohibits bringing handguns into SA.
As for the S&@ recalls: they seem to mostly be about the custom shop guns, so LH has it right on that.
I notice that he shoots 440 grain LFN bullets, out of his S&@ 500, or at least that's what he posted, but, he never says how fast???
Also, the top strap cutting with light bullets is long a matter of public record, in the initial releases of the S&@ guns. If you look at the current scandium guns, they actually put a little piece of steel insert to prevent it.
As for 'record' animals with a handgun, it's kind of easy, since very few people hunt African animals with a handgun, and, of the few that want to, with the new laws in South Africa, stopping you from bringing handguns into Africa, on airplanes, it's going to be very difficult to do.
Also, thanks to a REALLY screwed up shooting of a beautiful White Rhino in SA, quite a few countries banned handgun hunting, period.
There is a good chance your 'record' animals will stay that way. Sort of like my friend who has the freshman free throw record at Cal Berkeley at 92%. Since Cal will likely never have another freshman team...
jhgreasemonkey: Thanks for the support. I'm used to folks with money, that go to Africa, claiming that the ONLY way you should be able to write about Africa is if you've been. It's sort of a class warfare thing.
I don't really have a problem with the S&@ revolvers. I have a problem with the high pressure loads, and extreme bullet weights some want to use in them. 440 grains seems to be optimum for penetration in the 500 S&@, and, the same bullet is Jack Huntington's, and Gary Reeders. You can use that same bullet in .500JRH, and get 4-6 feet of penetration on cape buffalo, or asian buffalo.
Here are some of my favorite pics on the subject:
One of my favorite snubs:
Here's some meat damage from the 440 grain LFN .500 JRH, @ 950 fps, out of an Asian buffalo:
Asian Buffalo have near 1", or more, thick skin. Here's Jack Huntington pointing to the spot the 440 grain bullet penetrated to:
Here's a shot of a skinned animal:
Here are some recovered .500 JRH bullets. They deformed on the asian buffalos shoulder bones:
Here's my 360PD: probably the first, and last S&@ I'll ever own. I Dont have a pic that clearly shows the steel insert to prevent top strap cutting:
Please post pictures of these animals...
I'll ask LH again: HOW did you get your gun into MO? Did you fly in through South Africa? 2009 the guys are going to Zim, and, current law prohibits bringing handguns into SA.
As for the S&@ recalls: they seem to mostly be about the custom shop guns, so LH has it right on that.
I notice that he shoots 440 grain LFN bullets, out of his S&@ 500, or at least that's what he posted, but, he never says how fast???
Also, the top strap cutting with light bullets is long a matter of public record, in the initial releases of the S&@ guns. If you look at the current scandium guns, they actually put a little piece of steel insert to prevent it.
As for 'record' animals with a handgun, it's kind of easy, since very few people hunt African animals with a handgun, and, of the few that want to, with the new laws in South Africa, stopping you from bringing handguns into Africa, on airplanes, it's going to be very difficult to do.
Also, thanks to a REALLY screwed up shooting of a beautiful White Rhino in SA, quite a few countries banned handgun hunting, period.
There is a good chance your 'record' animals will stay that way. Sort of like my friend who has the freshman free throw record at Cal Berkeley at 92%. Since Cal will likely never have another freshman team...
jhgreasemonkey: Thanks for the support. I'm used to folks with money, that go to Africa, claiming that the ONLY way you should be able to write about Africa is if you've been. It's sort of a class warfare thing.
I don't really have a problem with the S&@ revolvers. I have a problem with the high pressure loads, and extreme bullet weights some want to use in them. 440 grains seems to be optimum for penetration in the 500 S&@, and, the same bullet is Jack Huntington's, and Gary Reeders. You can use that same bullet in .500JRH, and get 4-6 feet of penetration on cape buffalo, or asian buffalo.
Here are some of my favorite pics on the subject:
One of my favorite snubs:
Here's some meat damage from the 440 grain LFN .500 JRH, @ 950 fps, out of an Asian buffalo:
Asian Buffalo have near 1", or more, thick skin. Here's Jack Huntington pointing to the spot the 440 grain bullet penetrated to:
Here's a shot of a skinned animal:
Here are some recovered .500 JRH bullets. They deformed on the asian buffalos shoulder bones:
Here's my 360PD: probably the first, and last S&@ I'll ever own. I Dont have a pic that clearly shows the steel insert to prevent top strap cutting:
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LionHunter
New member
Well, I suppose you should go back and read this thread from the beginning.
Forest15, the original poster, asked for "unbiased opinion" regarding the S&W 500.
Socrates says "I'm a S&@ hater" and never claims to have fired a 500 or killed anything with one. He makes unsubstantiated claims against S&W and provides a link to a S&W recall that has nothing to do with the S&W production model X-Frames. Hardly unbiased, no?
On another board on this forum he has claimed expertise and knowledge of large bore rifles for hunting Africa. Yet when asked, he admits he's never been to Africa, let alone hunted there. He says he has shot a lot of large bore African rifles. That might make him an expert in shooting large bore rifles, but it doesn't grant him any expertise in cartridge/rifle effectiveness on African game. BTW it takes more than a couple of safaris and a dozen trophies to qualify as anything in Africa.
Having over 4,500 posts on this forum doesn't make him an expert in anything other than posting opinions on this forum. I make it my personal practice to qualify any posts I contribute. I take offense at internet experts who don't, but that's just my opinion. Yours may differ.
Semper Fi
Forest15, the original poster, asked for "unbiased opinion" regarding the S&W 500.
Socrates says "I'm a S&@ hater" and never claims to have fired a 500 or killed anything with one. He makes unsubstantiated claims against S&W and provides a link to a S&W recall that has nothing to do with the S&W production model X-Frames. Hardly unbiased, no?
On another board on this forum he has claimed expertise and knowledge of large bore rifles for hunting Africa. Yet when asked, he admits he's never been to Africa, let alone hunted there. He says he has shot a lot of large bore African rifles. That might make him an expert in shooting large bore rifles, but it doesn't grant him any expertise in cartridge/rifle effectiveness on African game. BTW it takes more than a couple of safaris and a dozen trophies to qualify as anything in Africa.
Having over 4,500 posts on this forum doesn't make him an expert in anything other than posting opinions on this forum. I make it my personal practice to qualify any posts I contribute. I take offense at internet experts who don't, but that's just my opinion. Yours may differ.
Semper Fi
LionHunter
New member
Look 'em up. They're in the SCI record book of African animals. I don't I owe you pics or answers. Troll? No, I just don't like internet experts who only know what they've read and heard.
Conversation (?) concluded.
LionHunter out.
Conversation (?) concluded.
LionHunter out.
kristop64089
New member
Call me a Schill for Socrates if ya want. But, when I was doing some research on my FA, he gave me Jack Huntington's number, and when I told Jack who refered me(I only knew his handle, and Intitals) he knew EXACTLY who I was talking about. He had nothing but good things to say about him, and that he really knows his stuff, and is definately(as Jack put it) one of the good guys,.
So, I am willing to bet there is some creedance to what Socrates says. Remeber, this is the i-net, we ALL could be lying!
Sorry to jack your thread, I have nothin', other than I'd love to touch one off in 500S&W.
So, I am willing to bet there is some creedance to what Socrates says. Remeber, this is the i-net, we ALL could be lying!
Sorry to jack your thread, I have nothin', other than I'd love to touch one off in 500S&W.
Ole 5 hole group
New member
Hunter of the great lion, you have been a member for less than a year - tone it down a little guy, your initial post was OK up to that last paragraph and then you may have showed your colors. Very few care about $world $record $African $animals but most of us do care about each other’s “unqualified” opinions and when it comes down to it that's all most of us have based upon our experience and research. We share our opinions if we think we can help one another, making unprovoked personal attacks on other members may give some reason to believe you're an ass. Everyone learns a little from others and Socrates has contributed a lot to various discussions and most (with damn few exceptions IMHO) welcome his input as it's based on research, discussion with other knowledgeable gun individuals, his experience and/or his opinion based on the aforementioned. I'm also sorry for the hijack but felt this needed to be said.
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Forest15,
I have been eyeing the SW 460. I have been reading as much as I can find on the 500 as well as the Ruger 454. I'm still up in the air. I have even concidered a .44 mag. My use will be for a little Florida hog and also back-up. I hike quite a bit along the AT so black bear is always on my mind.
For this I feel comfortable getting a .44 however I will have occasion to be fishing out west, which is why I am thinking about the larger caliber.
I have had the opportunity to shoot all of the guns. For me the recoil is a non-issue. I feel training will work out any kinks in my brain with that.
I like the SW 460 V because of the rounds it will take and the barrel length is not to short but not to long.
Do follow up with what you finally purchase.
I have been eyeing the SW 460. I have been reading as much as I can find on the 500 as well as the Ruger 454. I'm still up in the air. I have even concidered a .44 mag. My use will be for a little Florida hog and also back-up. I hike quite a bit along the AT so black bear is always on my mind.
For this I feel comfortable getting a .44 however I will have occasion to be fishing out west, which is why I am thinking about the larger caliber.
I have had the opportunity to shoot all of the guns. For me the recoil is a non-issue. I feel training will work out any kinks in my brain with that.
I like the SW 460 V because of the rounds it will take and the barrel length is not to short but not to long.
Do follow up with what you finally purchase.
Forest15: Sorry. Socrates must have gadflies...
I PMed my eval of the BFR's to you. The X frames aren't really handguns, more like artillery pieces without wheels.
However, if you chop the barrel down, custom fit grips, and shoot ammo that is loaded under 40k pressure, and bullets that aren't too light, or too heavy, you should be fine.
You HAVE to get rid of the stupid lock...
S
I PMed my eval of the BFR's to you. The X frames aren't really handguns, more like artillery pieces without wheels.
However, if you chop the barrel down, custom fit grips, and shoot ammo that is loaded under 40k pressure, and bullets that aren't too light, or too heavy, you should be fine.
You HAVE to get rid of the stupid lock...
S
The sheer idiocy of the argument that you have to have shot something to have some idea of it's terminal effect is absurd. The more I think about it, the more angry I get. What % of people here have EVER shot another human being? Yet we look for information on the subject so that if the incredibly unlikely event ever occurs, we are properly prepared. I thought the Marines had some such motto? Yet, someone with a sig: Semper Fi, puts that argument forward?
We use ballistic gelatin. Some even drink the S&M koolaid, and buy into their fake statistics.
Others accept that 3rd party information is the best source
on terminal effects. If you've never been to war, and, 100k people are shot with 7.62 x 54R, and, the people doing the shooting observe that the effect was very good, then you buy into it.
I have friends that shoot a LOT of game with heavy caliber handguns, including the 500 S&@. The .500 JRH, Jack's own invention, is a shortened version of that cartridge, and, he takes every chance he can to handgun hunt with that cartridge. His conclusion is it kills about the same as a 375 H&H, and, he's got the dead, large animals to prove it. They also modify S&@ revolvers as the one I pictured above.
I REALLY like the cylinder length, since its the same as my max, and, if loaded to 40k pressures, or, to .500JRH
levels I have no problem with the round. Whether the bullet comes out of a .500 JRH or a .500 S&@, the animal doesn't really know the difference. That said, I do know that over 440 grains, having a gun that actually has a bigger case, the .510 Linebaugh Maximum, and is the same length as the .500 S&@, and is more powerful, I just don't see the need for anything over the .500JRH level loads. You aren't going to shock a cape buffalo, or elephant. And, a .500 caliber bullet, 440 grains, makes the same size hole as a 525 grain .500 caliber bullet. MAYBE you could use penetration more then 5-6 feet the .500 JRH gives with a 430-440 grain bullet, but, on what animal? Rhino, elephant, hippo maybe? You REALLY shouldn't be hunting those with anything smaller then a 458 Lott, but, that's just because I LIKE that caliber, and, the .475 Ackley.
I think the .500 JRH is the most sensible of the big bores, along with the .475 Linebaugh/Huntington. Both give enough penetration for 99% of game, and, kill like a 375 H&H, at least according to a bunch of people that have watched other folks shoot bison sized animals with them.
Also, except for flat trajectory, for relatively long range shooting, I don't see what the extra two hundred feet a second gives you.
That said, and, this is totally irrational, I really like the .500 S&@/.500 Max sized cylinder guns.
For carrying around, and, normal human use, the shorter .475 Linebaugh is a real nice combination, and, a bit more packable:
Who was it that said the best way to avoid a war was to prepare for it?
We use ballistic gelatin. Some even drink the S&M koolaid, and buy into their fake statistics.
Others accept that 3rd party information is the best source
on terminal effects. If you've never been to war, and, 100k people are shot with 7.62 x 54R, and, the people doing the shooting observe that the effect was very good, then you buy into it.
I have friends that shoot a LOT of game with heavy caliber handguns, including the 500 S&@. The .500 JRH, Jack's own invention, is a shortened version of that cartridge, and, he takes every chance he can to handgun hunt with that cartridge. His conclusion is it kills about the same as a 375 H&H, and, he's got the dead, large animals to prove it. They also modify S&@ revolvers as the one I pictured above.
I REALLY like the cylinder length, since its the same as my max, and, if loaded to 40k pressures, or, to .500JRH
levels I have no problem with the round. Whether the bullet comes out of a .500 JRH or a .500 S&@, the animal doesn't really know the difference. That said, I do know that over 440 grains, having a gun that actually has a bigger case, the .510 Linebaugh Maximum, and is the same length as the .500 S&@, and is more powerful, I just don't see the need for anything over the .500JRH level loads. You aren't going to shock a cape buffalo, or elephant. And, a .500 caliber bullet, 440 grains, makes the same size hole as a 525 grain .500 caliber bullet. MAYBE you could use penetration more then 5-6 feet the .500 JRH gives with a 430-440 grain bullet, but, on what animal? Rhino, elephant, hippo maybe? You REALLY shouldn't be hunting those with anything smaller then a 458 Lott, but, that's just because I LIKE that caliber, and, the .475 Ackley.
I think the .500 JRH is the most sensible of the big bores, along with the .475 Linebaugh/Huntington. Both give enough penetration for 99% of game, and, kill like a 375 H&H, at least according to a bunch of people that have watched other folks shoot bison sized animals with them.
Also, except for flat trajectory, for relatively long range shooting, I don't see what the extra two hundred feet a second gives you.
That said, and, this is totally irrational, I really like the .500 S&@/.500 Max sized cylinder guns.
For carrying around, and, normal human use, the shorter .475 Linebaugh is a real nice combination, and, a bit more packable:
Who was it that said the best way to avoid a war was to prepare for it?
davlandrum
New member
Mine is just fine the way it is.
Because they bother you???
When did that change? It was perfectly legal spring of `06 when I booked mine. I can find no reference to it being any different now.
Air2000 is a popular service that helps in importing firearms from other countries. I can find no reference to handguns being illegal to bring into South Africa for hunting purposes.
http://www.hunterssupport.com/services.htm
This picture, linked from a Leverguns.com article, was taken last spring in the Limpopo district of South Africa. Note the bandolier holster.
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LionHunter
New member
Socrates is wrong, as usual, about hunting handguns in Africa. They may be imported into RSA and are legal in Zimbabwe as I write this. He obviously doesn't know what he is talking about, again.
The internet is a dangerous place, where anyone can become an expert simply by logging on. Speaking authoritatively may impress some but it doesn't give one any expertise nor validate their comments. Incorrect information needs to be exposed because if left in place, the influence it exerts on the uninformed can have unintended consequences of a negative effect.
Socrates can insult me all he wants but I am through responding to him. I will, however, continue to correct any incorrect information he posts here and on other internet firearms forums.
The internet is a dangerous place, where anyone can become an expert simply by logging on. Speaking authoritatively may impress some but it doesn't give one any expertise nor validate their comments. Incorrect information needs to be exposed because if left in place, the influence it exerts on the uninformed can have unintended consequences of a negative effect.
Socrates can insult me all he wants but I am through responding to him. I will, however, continue to correct any incorrect information he posts here and on other internet firearms forums.
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jeepster11
New member
460 /500
i have both the 460 and the 500 and i like the 460 hands down over the 500 its more versatile and cheaper to shoot and doesnt try to rip your hand off good luck
i have both the 460 and the 500 and i like the 460 hands down over the 500 its more versatile and cheaper to shoot and doesnt try to rip your hand off good luck
kristop64089
New member
Awwww, look! Socrates has made a friend.