.460 Rowland

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Do a search on "passwords" because I think it has been addresed, otherwise post a qeustion in the "feedback" area and someone will help ou.. I'm not even sure if you can.


Back to the .460-

The kit is a barrel with Comp, Wolf 24# spring, and a Wolf Firing pin spring. To be honest, I haven't replaced the firing pin spring, butI'm sure I'll get around to it. I'm trying to decide exactly which 1911 I am going to use the kit on.. I'm still floundering around on that one.

I forgot to address the carry issue.. I use open bottom holsters for most of my 1911's. In fact, I like the Yaqui Slide about as much as any holster for on the belt carry. Those types of holsters will work fine with the comp on the gun, but I am not considering the .460 for daily carry. I put this in the real of "fun to shoot" and "great for offense". Kinda like a .44 magnum, I have 3 .44s, none of which I would carry for self-defense. When I say "offense," I mean hunting.
 
I'm still waiting for actual chrono reading please. How about best group size at 25yds? Did you get a special deal on the .460 conversion and ammo???? Just want to check for an unbiased opinion. BTW, clocked my .45 Supers out of a commander Sunday and got 230s at 1200 fps 10ft from muzzle.

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AFFA
 
I am biased, regardless of what I paid for anything, because I like the Clark's work and they are all friends, as is Johnny Rowland.

I haven't bothered to get out my chrono and I am not likely to take the time/effort to give you a 25 yard rested group. I'm not into those kinds of measurements.

I bought the kit at dealer cost, which is about what I pay for anything. I was sent the about 80 rounds of the ammo as samples, because I have been harrassing Georgia Arms trying to buy some. They have told me that it would be ready by the end of the month. I will probably break out the Chrony when I get their production ammo, as it will be a more meaningful measurement than taking them off of Johnny's handloads.



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-Essayons
 
Georgia Arms brought several bags of .460 Rowland ammo to the local gunshow this past week. The labels claimed 1400fps for the 185gr JHP. Retail was under $20 for 50 rounds.

Ironicly at the very same show, I found a 1976 vintage book which gives passing mention to a wildcat called the .45 J-Mag. A M1911 conversion from Jeffredo Gunsight Company, the .45 J-Mag cases were made by trimming .30-06 or .308 brass to 1.025". The quoted ballistics...a 185gr JHP at >1400fps!

As they say, there is truly nothing new under the sun. ;)
 
According to the article in the Dec 97 Rifleman, shooting a few 45S loads in a standard 1911 45ACP will not cause a problem.
They say that several 100 would be and that by 1000 expect the slide to be cracked, etc..
I would be interested in the working pressure of the 460 Rowland, the 45S is around 26,500 psi for the standard, 28,500 for the +Ps. Other questions come to mind such as why the 45S uses a dual coil 30# spring and is reported to cycle ok with hardball 45 ammo? Why don't they replace more than the bbl, recoil and firing pin spring on the Rowland?
The 45S uses a buffered-head full-length guide rod, shortened and recontoured firing pin, extended ejector, and a square bottomed oversized firing pin stop. I would think that the 1911 frame would handle this set up just fine. I am not too sure about the Rowland if it is maybe loaded to nearer 40,000 psi like the 10mm. There is more bolt thrust as the caliber gets bigger, putting more pressure on everything. It sounds like the 460 may be overkill unless it is your back woods weapon in big bear county, then it may not even be enough. Brass for the 45S is available from Starline and loaded ammo from Triton which has a 2 different style bullets, one a propriatory one that breaks into 3 pieces after some penetration and makes 3 wound channels. I posted a request for info on hot 1911 loadings stating that I was leaning toward the 9x23,10mm and the 45S. I still think that is the 'best' ways for me to go with my new projects. Ace Pistols and Robar have conversion for the 45S which were priced at $179.50 in the 97 article (no muzzle break and no bbl). They also stated that the stock H&K USP handled the 45S w/o 'adverse effects'. Just keep having fun. Jim

[This message has been edited by JImDee (edited May 18, 1999).]
 
Very interesting. If the COL is the same as 45acp/S, and the brass is (longer and) thicker than acp, then there is even less case capacity than acp or 45S with same length bullets. So, I don't see how those vels can be achieved (way more than even 45S) without blowing up the gun, because not only do you have a bigger explosion with more volume and strength of powder (hence the vels), but the decreased case volume would itself compound the increased pressure, would it not? Did someone say the Rowland runs at 10mm-type pressures (37500 +-)?

And if there is nothing new under the sun, why don't these unusual cartridges ever "stick" with the shooting public? I mean, even a marginally successful round will have brass produced for 50 years by SOMEONE. Does the answer lie simply in metallurgy? Is this the first time in history a 45S or 460R can be offered in a standard-sized pistol (non-Desert Eagle)?
 
E&A,

I don't think I can answer your questions satisfactorily. I have no idea if the 460R is simply a rehash of an old cartridge.

I can tell you that I have never shot anything like it out of a standard sized pistol.

Generally, I am not into "exotic" rounds. My wife bought me a .400 CB barrel on the (bad) advice of a friend for Christmas, other than that and the CZ-52 I bought 'cuz it was cheap on the first day of the TN "instant" check, I don't have any "non-standard" pistol calibers. I wouldn't have given .460R a chance, except that the Clarks were involved in it and I was in a mood to spend money at the SHOT show. I'm glad I looked into it, and it will be a great hunting round.. as for the politics and the metallurgy of where the round came from. I dont know, and I'm not sure it matters.

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-Essayons
 
I was poking through the 1986 _American Handgunner Annual_ for some info on a friend's recent purchase...lo and behold, I stumbled across a half page ad for the Jeffredo Gunsight Company. It seems that 10 years after my earliest reference, the J-Mag family had grown from the original .45 J-Mag to include .41, 9mm, .308, .257, and 5.56mm bottle-necked offspring. (Some of those wildcats sound strangely familiar don't they?)

From the picture and text, it is pretty clear that they were making their own heavy profile slide with an integral scope mount and offered barrel lengths from 5" to 14". They could even mount a horizontal foregrip to the front of the frame dust cover.

Will we remember the .460 Rowland a decade from now? In the gun world, there is truly nothing new under the sun. ;)
 
Rob,
what is the case length compared to the 10mm?? The reason I ask is that the 10mm is the minimum case length for an auto that is legal for deer in Minnesota...

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---snoman---
 
The .460 Rowland cases should be pretty close to 1" from the loaded rounds I have seen at gun shows. If worse comes to worst, ask the folks who produce the loaded ammo: Georgia Arms (www.georgia-arms.com).



[This message has been edited by Daniel Watters (edited June 26, 1999).]
 
You know what strikes me about the .460 Rowland come to think of it?

We already have this round! It's called the .45 Win Mag! So why, why, why? I know, they're a little different, but what niche does the Rowland fill that the .45 Win Mag didn't already? And these days a .45 Win Mag will fit into a Rowland-sized gun (AMT Automag IV). At least .45 Super filled the niche of being able to use pre-ban hi-caps.

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 02, 1999).]
 
You hit the nail on the head, the size of the gun. Unless you want to guy buy an AMT, you can't have the .45 win mag in a standard size gun.

Furthermore, the AMT cost a bit more than the simple conversion kit for .460 Rowland.

The difference is the .44 mag ballistics in existing 1911 size guns.
 
Rob, I guess I mis-spoke. Apparently the same mags CAN be used for the Rowland? And I guess the AMT is still a hoss compared to a 1911 even with an extended comp? In that case, I like the Rowland a lot. :)

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 02, 1999).]
 
I was wandering around through old threads and came across this one. I've been trying to decide on a 10mm, .40 super, .45 super, or .460 Rowland.

Are you still shooting the .460 Rowland. How is your gun holding up? Have you taken game with it? In other words a year later would you recommend it?
 
I have been shooting a 20 ounce $180 new Patriot. It had great case support so I bought it to work up to 460 Rowland loads in a standard length 45acp case. I used Federal brass. I made a 42 pound triple spring home made guider rod assembly. The recoil is painful. I put sections of bike inner tube on the handle. That helped.

I have blown up 7 guns, but the Patriot has lasted longer than my arm.
 
..Anybody want to comment on Clark's above message?
I really hope he is trolling and not actually doing this stuff.

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Big Guns again
No speakee well
But plain.
--H.C
 
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