.45 +p is good for...

[agtman]

If you actually own and shoot a .45Win Mag pistol regularly, with real .45WinMag ammo (factory or handloads), you already understand just how absurd the concept of the 10mm ammo is.

Fuzzy reasoning ... Why switch the subject to a non-45acp .45 cartridge?

The .45WM was available in Col. Cooper's time. Did he suggest chambering it in a 1911? No, but after the business end of the Bren Ten failed (Dornaus & Dixon), he sure pushed chambering the 10mm AUTO in a 1911, later to be known as the Colt Delta Elite. It's no mere coincidence that the COALs of the .45acp and 10mm are nearly identical. He also considered the attempts of various ammo-makers to push the standard .45acp faster, but noted you generally had to use less weighty bullets to do it, which he rejected. The 10mm is more efficient, being capable of sending "relatively heavy (200gn) slugs," as he put it, quite fast.

Ok, the 10mm is more powerful than the .45ACP. and more than ACP+P, fine. But there are bigger more powerful rounds than the 10mm, as well. If you want to spin that wheel, you won't come out on top.

Not talking about the mega-magnum cartridges that have to be carried in such pants-drooping behemoths as the Desert Eagles, Wildeys or old AutoMags.

Only those "service size rounds" which fit comfortably in "a modern semi-automatic pistol of reasonable size and weight," which Cooper specified as not much beyond the specs of the 5" Government 1911. He conceded that the Bren Ten, and later, the S&W 1006 were both right up on that border.

 

[khegglie]

If by "power" you mean energy, then check out this data from Ballistics by the Inch. The energy graphs nicely demonstrate energy over barrel length. Assuming that the ammo selection is representative for the caliber, you can get a general energy ballpark for a given caliber at normal barrel lengths. I was more interested in the actual effect and subsequent practical application of .45 +p, but this is certainly interesting.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html

Thanks!

 

[44 AMP]

Why switch the subject to a non-45acp .45 cartridge?

Why switch the subject to the 10mm??

I'm not talking about what Col Cooper liked or didn't, nor am I talking about what fits in a "modern semi automatic of reasonable size and weight". Those are other subjects.

What I'm talking about is that you said this,

If you actually own and shoot a 10mm pistol regularly, with real 10mm ammo (factory or handloads), you already understand just how absurd the concept of +P .45 ammo is.

Which says to me that you find the .45acp+p absurd, because you own and shoot a 10mm. (if you meant something different, please explain it differently)

Since I own and shoot something as far (or further) above the 10mm on the power scale, as the 10mm is above the .45ACP, how is it fuzzy reasoning for me to consider the 10mm the same way you consider the .45ACP+P??

If you'd care to explain the apparent double standard I'm seeing here, I'm listening.

 

[Cosmodragoon]

Which says to me that you find the .45acp+p absurd, because you own and shoot a 10mm...

We sometimes get the guys together and use .460 S&W to blow up milk jugs, overripe fruit, old canned goods, etc. (Extra large jars of peanut butter are a crowd favorite.) The "affordable" 200-grain Flex Tips from Hornady are basically the same bullets as .45acp but traveling at more than twice the speed. I suppose that .45 Winchester Magnum would be absurd too.

Honestly though, the only reason I don't own a 10mm is that I haven't fallen in love with any of the readily available guns. (Sorry, I'm not a 1911 guy.) If they finally import the Grand Power P40L, things may change. The excitement might cause me to forget about the venerable .45 but until then, I'm still enjoying the responses.

 

[the possum]

I have always hand loaded my .45 for varmint hunting- specifically coons tearing up stuff in the cattle feed rooms. I was never happy with the "stopping power" of any of those rounds, but +P loads did seem to do better on average. My go-to load was a 185 grn Gold Dot moving over 1200 fps; I stick with 1100 fps loads on my current pistol since they group better.

I really would have liked a more powerful pistol, but for that style of shooting I needed something that was still reasonably light and fast moving, and held at least 10 rounds. I never did try the 10mm since all the load data I could find suggested I should only expect to gain around 100-200 fps. A gain of 500-600 fps would be well worth it.

 

[agtman]

* * * Honestly though, the only reason I don't own a 10mm is that I haven't fallen in love with any of the readily available guns. (Sorry, I'm not a 1911 guy.) If they finally import the Grand Power P40L, things may change. * * *

10mm GP ... $819.00
https://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?item=GPP4010MD

Time to pony up.

 

[black mamba]

I shoot Golden Sabre 185 +P in my carry Glock 30. It gives an honest 1,000 fps + out of my shorter barrel, plus the penetration and expansion I'm looking for, and is the most accurate factory load I've tried in my pistol. Win, win, win.

 

[Nanuk]

I use and like +P in 45 ACP.

 

[Model12Win]

Are +P and magnum cartridges a "Band-Aid" for poor shot placement? I think so. At least for self defense. Hunting with a handgun, well yes, magnum loads are required.

Then there's always "that guy" who will set up next to you at an indoor range, pull out a .357 Mag, .44 Mag or something in +P and shake the cobwebs off the rafters while everyone else is concentrating on precision shot placement with a .22 or center fire softball loads. Ruins it for everyone.

If you're shooting is "ruined" by someone shooting a .357 magnum next to you, while you're wearing hearing protection, good luck with shot placement during a REAL stressful situation like defense. If that bothers you and screws up your shooting, you need more training. Nothing AT ALL wrong with someone using a .357 with hot loads for defense or at the range. Just because you can't handle it doesn't mean they can't.

 

[Koda94]

Just how much extra penetration or expansion in "real world" targets (or at least in fun backyard approximations) do you get from the +p's bump in velocity? A lot of guns seem rated for it off the shelf. Do you find a steady diet of it rougher on your guns? Under what circumstances do you say "this is a job for .45 +p" but not the standard stuff?

.45+P is good for.... nothing.

none of the +p rounds have a better performance curve than traditional loads.... for every +P that excels, there is a traditional load that does the same and probably with less recoil.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#45ACP

this is the first time Ive seen a caliber debate with only 1 caliber....

stopping power is a myth, marksmanship is what matters.

 

[HiBC]

I just carefully re-read the OP.
He pretty much said for serious purposes,he chooses the smaller bores.
He has an emotional reason for shooting the 45,mostly at targets,at the range.

Might it be that all of the very serious answers miss the target?
I enjoy shooting cans with a full power 44 Magnum.A serious response might be "shoot cans with a 22LR"

It might be the OP wants more push and roar.He wants the cans to jump higher.

Seems like the spirit of the hot rodder.

The question"Will it beat up my gun?"
My answer: Get a 20 lb spring,and don't load hot enough for the slide stop to hold the slide back reliably.Then put the 16 or 18 lb spring in so it will run.
Heavy recoil springs beat up the 1911.

Load to JMB's springs and cycle.

Then hotrod yourself. Get better.