.45 +p is good for...

C

Cosmodragoon

New member
I haven't been shooting much .45acp lately and I almost never carry it. I know "big and slow" has a lot of defenders and I'm certainly not opposed. When it comes down to it though, the added bullet weight and girth doesn't contribute quite enough extra to get picked over 9mm, .40 S&W, or even .357 Sig when I'm deciding what to pick for carry or a trip to the range. Those choices all seem to penetrate well, expand well, and perhaps most pertinently, fit a few more in the magazine.

However, I'm stuck with an emotional interest in the classic big-bore. So I considered the upgrades. The .40 Super looked amazing but seems to require a few modifications and maybe a bit more stress than is good? The .400 Corbon looked a little more my speed but it seems to be a fading relic. The .45 Super seems interesting but I'm not sure how much extra wear and tear is involved, or what modifications are really worth doing to accommodate it. So what about regular ol' .45acp +p?

Just how much extra penetration or expansion in "real world" targets (or at least in fun backyard approximations) do you get from the +p's bump in velocity? A lot of guns seem rated for it off the shelf. Do you find a steady diet of it rougher on your guns? Under what circumstances do you say "this is a job for .45 +p" but not the standard stuff?
 
I don't really have your answer,but I offer the question:To what end?
I won't argue with your goal,but what is it that you are trying to accomplish?

Once you know that,you can decide how to get there.

Most everything is about tradeoff and deciding where the best compromise is.
 
What is +P good for to me? Nothing.

I have always kept in mind that the 45 ACP was designed for a 230 gr FMJ pushed at approximately 850 fps. This load worked thru 2 world wars and a few skirmishes such as Korea and Viet Nam.

I have never loaded +P in anything.

Mankind has tried to exemplify the venerable old cartridge by creating lighter expanding bullets pushed to approximately 1000 fps or so in order to sell more ammo.

My target ammo is the 200 gr. SWC and I prolly shoot that round 10:1 over other loads.

So, my answer is that I have never +P'ed anything. I have no need for it.

Of course, YMMV.
 
I've never seen the advantage of any caliber in +P.
The increase is still a minor consideration, it's still small arms.
Too much emphasis on stuff, instead of how to use stuff effectively, whatever the choice of stuff.
(Wot?).
 
The "power" of .45 is in the size and weight of the bullet, and increasing velocity just makes the gun harder to shoot.
I've shot some +P and .45 Super, and wouldn't choose them for anything that didn't have more than two legs.
 
I personally like the +P .45ACP rounds.

I use +P and +P+ in my 9mms as well.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 230GR ball was designed for the M1911. Which has a 5 inch barrel that still moves slow. A Glock 30, for example with shooting a 230GR bullet with a 3.77 inch barrel, won't be getting the same "umph" as it would from a 5 inch barrel.

So that +P coupled with a light bullet in 185GR is basically the same or better to achieve that same "umph" we long for.
 
Well, for 1 the 1911 platform was never intended for +P.

If you want increased penetration, use a solid, instead of a HP.

And if you load for +P out of a 5" barrel, and use a 3.25" barrel, your just burning powder after the bullet has left the barrel.

There is also the recoil, and follow up shot if needed. Hence why I got rid of my 40 S&W.

For faster, go lighter. I'm using 185gr. Sierra HP, and Tournament master. I carry both mixed in the mag. And can hit 5" at 25 yards out of a 4" 1911.
 
I appreciate the diversity (and occasional hilarity) of the answers so far. I'm not seeing a whole lot in terms of where the .45 +p really shines. Is there anything it really does that regular .45acp won't?

I know. So long as the shot is hitting the same spot, the difference between decent defensive ammo across normal defensive calibers can end up being academic. When it does, bullet construction may be a more important factor than a little extra velocity. I'm just curious to see your opinion. After all, the "goal" here is just the exploration of an admittedly emotional (and possibly irrational) interest in a historically significant cartridge. If it turns out that the modern +p variant really is the bee's knees for some kind of critter or special situation, then that's good too. :)
 
45 can be made semi-warm if you reload. 950fps with a 230 gn is safely doable. This is 450 ft/lbs and nothing to sneeze at. An extra 100 fps added to that big lead ball adds almost 100 ft/lbs of energy. You can also make a good bit of energy with hot rodding a 185 gn pill.

In the end I would not subject any standard 1911 to a steady diet of this. A squared firing pin stop, a slightly heavier recoil spring, and a heavier mainspring are in order for a steady diet of these loads. Also brass needs to be +p specific brass for any kind of reload life, especially given the lack of chamber support in most 1911s. I would not trust more than one, MAYBE two, firing of standard brass at this level. If you're firing from a USP45 go for it. It has a well supported chamber and Its well known that it can handle 45 super. For me, standard 45 makes more sense from a 1911. Range brass lasts forever, I have a nice light trigger thanks to a nice slightly lighter mainspring (with no misfires to date), and my pistol will last into the 10s of thousands of rounds. That's what any kind of regular firing of +p would take away from me.

Moral of the story? You have to decide what you want.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but 230GR ball was designed for the M1911.
Click to expand...

Well, for 1 the 1911 platform was never intended for +P.
Click to expand...

Browning designed the round and the pistol for each other. And designed them to meet the customer's requirements.

so, OF COURSE the 1911 was not designed for +P, because (+p as we know it didn't exist at the time) and it wasn't what the Government specified.

IF the government spec had been a 230gr at 1,000fps, Browning would have worked to create one, and a gun that would handle it, and probably would have succeeded, eventually.

The 1911 design can be made to shoot .44magnum level rounds, if you want. LAR proved that quite well.
 
Well, all that being said, i for one still wouldn't be the one to take the time, and the round count to be proficeint with +P.

I really don't care for the recoil of some of the loads i've done in the past while remaining below the 21,000 psi standard level.

If you want a faster 45, why not just go to the Win Mag, or 460 S&W?
 
Been carrying +P in my .45's for the last 20 years. I don't shoot those rounds regularly, but I prefer to have them J.I.C. Lotta folks drive cars at 70 mph that'll do 185. Just because you have something extra doesn't mean you have to burn right through it.
 
I would suggest +P for the .45ACP for anyone who has direct, first-hand experience with multiple incicdents where standard preassure failed to acheive the desired outcome AND there is overwhelming evidence that a +P load with that exact shot placement at that exact moment would have succeeded.
Absent the above, it's of no benefit. Of course there's no harm beyond extra cost.
I wouldn't worry about extra wear and tear as you're not likely to feed it a steady diet. If you can afford enough factory ammo, +P or or not, to wear out a 1911 your financial status is such that the cost of a new gun now and then shouldn't bother you much.
 
For whatever its worth, I bought a Colt Gold Cup .45 ACP in the late 'Seventies or so. It was second hand, and had been set up for +P ammunition. I loaded up some .45 ACP with the 185 gr. Sierra JHC (Jacketed Hollow Cavity) bullets and what I believe was Accurate No. 5, to around 1290 f.p.s. This load proved deadly on crows out to about 75 yards or so.

The Accurate Powder representative at the time analyzed my loads and told me not to use these in an M1911 that was not set up for heavy loads. I did use them safely in a S&W M625 revolver.

So far as I know, the only thing done to that .45 was a stiffer mainspring.

But I might add, the Colt Government Model was offered in .38 Super, which was, and is, a fairly hot round in itself.

Bob Wright

Bob Wright
 
Browning designed the round and the pistol for each other. And designed them to meet the customer's requirements.
Click to expand...

As I recall, the Browning designed cartridge was a .45 caliber round loaded with a 200 gr. bullet at 910 f.ps. The Frankford Arsenal designed rounds were with the 230 gr. bullet for both pistol and revolver consideration. these were the .45 caliber M-1906 rounds.

Bob Wright
 
But I might add, the Colt Government Model was offered in .38 Super, which was, and is, a fairly hot round in itself.
Click to expand...
It's also offered as a Delta Elite in 10mm, which is SUBSTANTIALLY hotter than a 45 +P.
The increased wear issue is a complete non-issue, IMO.
 
Objective comparison found in Lucky Gunner tests:
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
Tests conducted with short barrel 45
Little difference in standard and +P version of 230 HST & Ranger T, or XTP 200

Federal also has test data for 230 HST in standard and +P
http://www.le.vistaoutdoor.com/wound_ballistics/load_comparison/load_comparison.aspx
Again, little difference.

I carry 357 Sig more than 45, little more capacity and over 500# KE
357 HST averages 1,358 fps from my Glock 32
 
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