45 Long Colt

For whatever reason, that extra length between grip and trigger feels much better to me than on the Colt clones.

10-96, I know exactly of what you are talking about.
With hot 45 Colt loads (tier 3 loads) a gun with the plow handle style grip like on the Ruger Blackhawk the trigger guard bashes the second finger of my shooting hand, especially the middle knuckle of that finger.
It's painful enough that after a few shots it will cause me to flinch.

I don't have that problem with a Birds Head or Bisley style grip.
The reason for that is I can position my shooting hand different and move my second finger knuckle away from the trigger guard.
I kind of have a suspicion that's one of the reasons John Linebaugh recommends Bisley grip guns for his conversions.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
I saw something online recently that claimed that it took upwards 40 man hours to perform some of these conversion, and that making a new gun from scratch was actually cheaper.

I think that statement would need to be taken with a grain of salt. Making revolvers was not like making flintlock rifles. They were not made one at a time by craftsmen. Ever since Sam Colt perfected his mass production techniques for making revolvers, they were always mass produced. Making a revolver from scratch the old fashioned way, one at a time, would have been hideously expensive. Putting 40 man hours into an old, obsolete percussion revolver may have been expensive, but it would have been cheaper than making one from scratch.

This also has to be looked at from a historical perspective. For most of the percussion period, from 1857 until about 1869 Smith and Wesson controlled the Rollin White patent for making revolvers with bored through cylinders that could be loaded with cartridges from the rear. This took in a great deal of the percussion period with revolvers. Colt tried to get around the White patent with the Thuer conversion, utilizing a reverse tapered cartridge. While it got around the White patent, it was not financially successful.

I can never keep straight just which of the Colt conversions were 'retrofitted' percussion guns, and which were made up using existing parts, and which were designed from the ground up to be cartridge guns. This was also caused by the White patent. Although the patent expired in 1869, Colt did not have the Single Action Army ready for the Army until 1873. The conversion units were just ways for Colt to put a cartridge revolver on the market between 1869 and 1873, until the SAA was ready. The same with the Remington conversions I mentioned earlier. These were done earlier with patent royalties going directly to S&W.

Clearly, it would not have been financially feasible to convert any of these revolvers in a factory if 40 man hours had to be dumped into each gun. Mass production probably allowed them to be converted much more quickly. However many C&B revolvers were converted one at a time by individual gunsmiths. Individual gunsmiths probably could get away with sneaking around the White patent as long as they kept a low profile. S&W was vigilant about prosecuting patent violators, but they couldn't find every gunsmith in every small hamlet. I can well imagine it might take 40 hours to make parts from scratch and modify the guns one at a time. By the end of the Civil War surplus percussion revolvers were a glut on the market and could be had very cheap. Perhaps the economics worked out to pay a gunsmith to modify a C&B gun if it could be had cheap enough in the first place.
 
10-96, I know exactly of what you are talking about.
With hot 45 Colt loads (tier 3 loads) a gun with the plow handle style grip like on the Ruger Blackhawk the trigger guard bashes the second finger of my shooting hand, especially the middle knuckle of that finger.
It's painful enough that after a few shots it will cause me to flinch.

You might try holding the gun differently. I am assuming here you are holding the gun with your entire hand squeezed onto the grip. Holding a SA revolver that way puts the knuckle of your middle finger right behind the triggerguard, and any recoil will smash the trigger guard into your knuckle. I learned a long time ago that if I can introduce about 1/4" of space between the rear of the trigger guard and my knuckle, I won't get my finger whacked in recoil. I do this by not trying to cram my entire hand onto the grip. Instead I curl my pinky under the grip. This allows me to shift my grip down a bit on the handle, which opens up about 1/4" of space between my knuckle and the trigger guard. I can shoot full power Black Powder loads all day in a Colt this way, which is lighter than a Blackhawk, and I do not get my knuckle bashed.

This of course flies in the face of what we were taught about shooting a 1911, we were told to hold the gun as high as possible to minimize muzzle flip. But it it physically impossible to get a finger behind the trigger guard of a 1911.

Try shifting your grip, you might be surprised how it takes the pain away.
 


Take a look at these two. Note how they are virtually the same size overall. The blued gun is a New Vaquero .45 Colt 5.5" barrel.

The stainless one is a Vaquero .45 Colt 4.625" barrel (4 5/8")

See how the difference in the frame size makes up for the difference in barrel lengths.
 
"I think that statement would need to be taken with a grain of salt. Making revolvers was not like making flintlock rifles. They were not made one at a time by craftsmen."

Except in the case of the conversion revolvers, the conversions required quite a bit of handwork, done by a craftsman or at least a semi-skilled mechanic, that a new, purpose built revolver would not require.

Remember, too, that manhours includes effort of all levels of trades, not just the most skilled.
 
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44AMP- that's neat seeing them compared like that. Is there anything compatible between the two as far as grips and parts?
 
its settled, I shopped around and decided on the 45lc Blackhawk, not the convertible, not really interested in 45acp. haven't bought it yet, but I will be by next week, I am going to shop around and see if I can find a local price for similar to Bud's, if not i'll just go with buds.

after playing wth all the toys, I decided on the Blackhawk mainly because of the adjustable sights, the vaquero actually fit my hand a little better, or maybe just felt more balanced, but the lack of adjustable sights killed it.

the only decision now is the 7in or 5inch, but think ill do the 7 1/2"
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...45+Long+Colt+Blackhawk+w7.5"+Barrel+&+Blue+Fi
 
Sounds good. I think you made a good choice with the adjustable sighted BH in .45 Colt. Barrel length is your choice. Always remember one, leads to two, which leads to four, which leads to eight ..... They will multiple and you'll have your fixed sighted revolver at some point anyway!

Keep us posted!
 
Good choice Skizzims!

Although, I don't think there was a BAD choice listed in this thread. :D

You'll have a LOT of fun with a 45 caliber Blackhawk and like was mentioned, they DO have a way of multiplying.
 
The Blackhawk will make for a fine life long partner.
I would suggest you fondle some revolvers of each length before settling. The extra barrel length makes a big difference in balance.
 
Great choice , the blackhawk. I've had one in .45 long colt for years, never a problem. If you ever want to reload many powders will work in that caliber.

But a 7-1/2" barrel was what the army issued to the cavalry back in the 1870's. The foot soldiers (artillery mainly), got the 5-1/2" model. Cowboys wearing the gun wanted a shorter barrel and that was the 4-5/8" length.

For holster wear the 7-1/2" is just too much in my opinion. Not very handy. For hunting, yes the that's where the 7-1/2" is better.

Oh, the one with adjustable sights is better for most uses.
 
44 or 45

44 Special and 45 Colt are both almost equally versatile rounds and each has a very wide power range and a multitude of bullets and loading formulas that have been well tested for various needs.
 
.45 Colt is wonderful.

Taurus Revolvers are good.

Taurus Judges *shooting* .45 colt suck sweaty ones. The rifling is too shallow. Waste of time. If you get a Judge, shoot .410.

If you want a .45 colt, by all means get a .45 colt - I *really* like the 4.2" Ruger Redhawk but others are good too - Pre-lock SW Mountain Gun is a tasty nugget. In the unlikely event you can find one of the old non-Judge Taurus Trackers 4" in .45 colt, jump on it or let me know where it is, please!

44 Special and 45 Colt are both almost equally versatile rounds and each has a very wide power range and a multitude of bullets and loading formulas that have been well tested for various needs

Change .44 special to .44 mag and I'd agree completely. The .44 special isn't nearly as versatile as .45 colt (though it is versatile):

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=8
 
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44 Special and 45 Colt are both almost equally versatile rounds and each has a very wide power range and a multitude of bullets and loading formulas that have been well tested for various needs

Change .44 special to .44 mag and I'd agree completely. The .44 special isn't nearly as versatile as .45 colt (though it is versatile):

The catch is that .44 Special can be found in a medium frame gun (5 shot). When the same can be said for .44 Magnum, the gun is likely to be fed .44 Special.

The versatility question with .45 Colt has more to do with the gun than the ammo. Standard SA Cowboy guns are limited in capability, while heavy duty .45 Colt requires a lot of gun to carry.
 
I burnt up another 100 rounds through my Cimarron (Uberti) practicing on clay pigeons from 35 yards out to 50 yards.

The more I shoot this gun the harder it is to put it down.
It seems so well balanced and with that sweet trigger pull I find it easy to shoot well with this gun.

I'll sure be glad when my Bisley model Cimarron (Uberti) arrives so I can put it through it's paces and see how well it shoots.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
guns are limited in capability, while heavy duty .45 Colt requires a lot of gun to carry.
I have to disagree somewhat. The large frame .45 Colt BH is 'not' a lot of gun to carry. In fact it is lighter (because of alloy ERH and grip frame) than the New Vaquero and the Lipsey Flattop, yet capable of full house Tier 3 loads. Side by side they aren't much different in size (although I like the 'feel' of the medium frame better). That said, how much do you really need? A medium frame Lipseys .45 Colt Flattop took a large Blackbear and the results were very good according to Brian Pearce (Documented in a Hand loader magazine sometime back).
 
The 4+" barrel New Vaquero is significantly less bulky to carry, even if the weights are comparable.

Do you really want to shoot the same loads as the Redhawks, especially in the lighter weight gun?

If I had been quoted completely, it would be seen that I was only referring to "Standard SA Cowboy guns", i.e. not the Blackhawks.
 
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it would be seen that I was only referring to "Standard SA Cowboy guns", i.e. not the Blackhawks.
Well, The New Vaquero is same as the Lipsey .45 Colt flattop BH, and the original Vaquero is the same as the large frame BH..... Very popular 'cowboy' action guns from what I understand.... So really just fixed sighted or adjustable sighted Blackhawks is what it boils down to.... If talking about the 'clones' or the Colt SAA, then the capability is somewhat restricted ... I agree... Although they did seem to do the job since 1873...


Do you really want to shoot the same loads as the Redhawks
I had a Super Redhawk, and sold it because it was very unwieldy and never dragged it out much. It was 'useless' for a general packing iron. As for shooting the same loads, well, no (but one could), if we are talking max Ruger Only Loads... but then I live in the lower 48 and don't need to go 'there'. I feel I am well protected with the HS-6 Linebaugh load for my .45 Colt Ruger revolvers without resorting to 'mega loads'.
 
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