.45 in combat
- Thread starter rmocarsky
- Start date
Yes.
Sorry, just couldn't resist...
but yes, lots of people have known those people, I've known several. None of the ones I knew are still alive to give first hand accounts, so all there really is available today is hearsay, and those written accounts you can find in memoirs and some history books.
Generally the guys I knew who did use the .45 said some variation of "I shot him, he went down" and little else, simply because that was all there was to say. Often, if asked for more details, they'd say "I was a little busy at the time and didn't notice much else" (and some were a bit less polite,
)
Read enough accounts of WWII and you'll find some amazing things. Like several times where the mighty 1911A1 jammed. The "never jam" reputation of GI .45s is an embellishment over decades, the truth is not that they "never" jammed, but that they jammed less than the other guys pistols, USUALLY.
There is even a report of a parachuting pilot shooting down a Japanese fighter with his 1911A1.
The guys I knew generally had the same attitude about it, something along the lines of "I'm here, because it worked" and they felt it would do so again, if needed.
I've never had to shoot anyone with a pistol, but I've shot a lot of 1911 pattern guns, worked on them, inspected and repaired them for the Army in the 70s, and there isn't the slightest bit of doubt in my mind that if I do my part, they do theirs.
Sorry, just couldn't resist...
but yes, lots of people have known those people, I've known several. None of the ones I knew are still alive to give first hand accounts, so all there really is available today is hearsay, and those written accounts you can find in memoirs and some history books.
Generally the guys I knew who did use the .45 said some variation of "I shot him, he went down" and little else, simply because that was all there was to say. Often, if asked for more details, they'd say "I was a little busy at the time and didn't notice much else" (and some were a bit less polite,
)Read enough accounts of WWII and you'll find some amazing things. Like several times where the mighty 1911A1 jammed. The "never jam" reputation of GI .45s is an embellishment over decades, the truth is not that they "never" jammed, but that they jammed less than the other guys pistols, USUALLY.
There is even a report of a parachuting pilot shooting down a Japanese fighter with his 1911A1.
The guys I knew generally had the same attitude about it, something along the lines of "I'm here, because it worked" and they felt it would do so again, if needed.
I've never had to shoot anyone with a pistol, but I've shot a lot of 1911 pattern guns, worked on them, inspected and repaired them for the Army in the 70s, and there isn't the slightest bit of doubt in my mind that if I do my part, they do theirs.
Kreyzhorse
New member
Yes.
It worked, but not my story to tell.
As an interesting aside, I do have the holster that the fine man who shared his .45 story with me carried at the time.
It worked, but not my story to tell.
As an interesting aside, I do have the holster that the fine man who shared his .45 story with me carried at the time.
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Wasn't a 1911 in either war. It was a 1911A1.
I have never, ever, spoken with a real combat vet who would speak about anything that happened during said combat. Even when they were drunk.
Pistols are not and never have been primary weapons for combat. Even for cavalry. They're status symbols, issued to people who couldn't do their job while carrying a rifle and last ditch, "OMG! I've misplaced my rifle!" weapons. A cavalryman's main weapon was his sabre or lance.
During W.W. II, 1911A1 pistols were being phased out in favour of the M1 Carbine. It's far easier and quicker to teach a guy, who has never seen a real firearm(the idea of the U.S. being a nation of riflemen is a huge myth.) to shoot an M1 Carbine well enough then it is any pistol.
"...report of a parachuting pilot..." Read that one in some airplane book long ago.
I have never, ever, spoken with a real combat vet who would speak about anything that happened during said combat. Even when they were drunk.
Pistols are not and never have been primary weapons for combat. Even for cavalry. They're status symbols, issued to people who couldn't do their job while carrying a rifle and last ditch, "OMG! I've misplaced my rifle!" weapons. A cavalryman's main weapon was his sabre or lance.
During W.W. II, 1911A1 pistols were being phased out in favour of the M1 Carbine. It's far easier and quicker to teach a guy, who has never seen a real firearm(the idea of the U.S. being a nation of riflemen is a huge myth.) to shoot an M1 Carbine well enough then it is any pistol.
"...report of a parachuting pilot..." Read that one in some airplane book long ago.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Not true, or correct.T. O'Heir said:
"1911" is a generic term that encompasses all pistols on the 1911 "platform" (with deference to a current discussion about jargon). The actual military-issue pistols were preceded by an 'M' in the nomenclature: either M1911 or M1911A1. While the .gov transitioned from the M1911 to the M1911A1 for new manufacture and issue shortly after WW1, M1911s continued in service right up until the 1911s were replaced in service by the Beretta. There were M1911s in service during both WW2 and Korea -- as well as Vietnam.
In fact, there have been some M1911s among the surplus pistols currently being sold off by the CMP.
One of the problems with witnesses is that most of these stories were told by young GIs that had never seen a pistol close up, but they embellished and retold war stories to impress the girls at the USO.
When I was on active duty, I had to qualify with a 1911A1 .45. The old master sergeant that I worked for told me to go to the dispensary and get a roll of 2 inch wide adhesive tape. He said to wrap 4 or 5 tight wraps of tape around my wrist before firing that .45 or the recoil would sprain my wrist.
This guy was a WW2 veteran. I found out that he was a mechanic in the war, and he rebuilt aircraft engines. He never left the U.S. and never fired a pistol.
I didn't have the heart to tell him that i had been shooting a 1911 since I was 10 years old!
When I was on active duty, I had to qualify with a 1911A1 .45. The old master sergeant that I worked for told me to go to the dispensary and get a roll of 2 inch wide adhesive tape. He said to wrap 4 or 5 tight wraps of tape around my wrist before firing that .45 or the recoil would sprain my wrist.
This guy was a WW2 veteran. I found out that he was a mechanic in the war, and he rebuilt aircraft engines. He never left the U.S. and never fired a pistol.
I didn't have the heart to tell him that i had been shooting a 1911 since I was 10 years old!
On this subject, I have the book US Infantry Weapons in Combat by Mark G, Goodman
It's a collection of very short interviews of WW2 and Korea war vets regarding the small arm weapons that they were trained on and issued, as well as some that were otherwise procured and carried unofficially. It's a very interesting read.
https://www.amazon.com/Infantry-Wea...ords=weapons+in+combat&qid=1572984844&sr=8-11
It's a collection of very short interviews of WW2 and Korea war vets regarding the small arm weapons that they were trained on and issued, as well as some that were otherwise procured and carried unofficially. It's a very interesting read.
https://www.amazon.com/Infantry-Wea...ords=weapons+in+combat&qid=1572984844&sr=8-11
Steve in Allentown
New member
Once upon a time I had a battalion XO who spent time in a cav unit in Vietnam. He told the story about the time they attacked into a tree line with their M113s. As they were in the process of tearing up the vegetation with their .50s an NVA leaped up onto the front slope of his PC apparently with the intention of silencing the .50. Our hero couldn't depress the .50 enough to engage the bad guy so he pulled his .45 out of his shoulder holster and knocked the bad guy off the vehicle with one shot.
I've long since forgotten the XO's name but the point of his story was not about his personal actions that day but rather as an illustration of poor tactics and bad judgement on the part of the CO. Running armored vehicles into a tree line and then stopping is an invitation to disaster.
I've long since forgotten the XO's name but the point of his story was not about his personal actions that day but rather as an illustration of poor tactics and bad judgement on the part of the CO. Running armored vehicles into a tree line and then stopping is an invitation to disaster.
I spent a year in Vietnam serving in Military Intelligence in the Army. I spent most of my time in Saigon wearing civilian clothes and driving a blue and white jeep while carrying a .38 Special in a belt holster. I rarely wore military combat clothing, but I carried a 1911 .45 in a belt holster when I wore that uniform. I also had an M-16 when I wore the belt holster with the .45. I never fired any weapon in Vietnam except a handgun at a target range.
Edit: I wore the 1911 .45 in the belt holster on a night ambush with a U.S. Navy Seal and several Ruff Puffs, an American nick name for Regional Forces and Popular Forces which were considered "comparable" to U.S. National Guard troops.
Edit: No shots were fired on that night ambush.
Edit: I never heard an American military service man (or woman) refer to Ruff Puffs as a derogatory term although I just read on the internet that the term was supposedly used by Americans as a derogatory term.
Edit: I wore the 1911 .45 in the belt holster on a night ambush with a U.S. Navy Seal and several Ruff Puffs, an American nick name for Regional Forces and Popular Forces which were considered "comparable" to U.S. National Guard troops.
Edit: No shots were fired on that night ambush.
Edit: I never heard an American military service man (or woman) refer to Ruff Puffs as a derogatory term although I just read on the internet that the term was supposedly used by Americans as a derogatory term.
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I had an uncle that was a medic in Germany during WII. He never talked about combat much. I can only remember two times he said anything about combat at all. I asked him about a scar he had on the back of his hand and he said he got strafed by a Stuka. I've always had an affection for single action Colt's and he told me to get a .45 automatic. He said one saved his butt a few times in Germany but he wouldn't elaborate. He didn't call it a 1911 or a Colt. He called it a .45 automatic.
I had an email exchange with a Vietnam vet about a decade ago. He'd seen or used a 45 in combat, and was unimpressed with its performance - saying something less than favorable about its 'wounding' ability. He got his hands on a 357 Magnum, and it performed much better in his experience. His preferred carry gun at the time of correspondence was a semi-auto chambered in 9X23 Winchester because it produces 357 Magnum-like ballistics.
There is a certain mythology surrounding the 45, as there is with many cartridges. But the 45 is not magic, nor are many other cartridges.
The article below describes the application of a 45 Auto when fighting a determined attacker, and how bullet placement is king:
https://www.policeone.com/police-he...5-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job-clGBbLYpnqqHxwMq/
There is a certain mythology surrounding the 45, as there is with many cartridges. But the 45 is not magic, nor are many other cartridges.
The article below describes the application of a 45 Auto when fighting a determined attacker, and how bullet placement is king:
https://www.policeone.com/police-he...5-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job-clGBbLYpnqqHxwMq/
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Because that's what it was called in the military: "Automatic Pistol, Caliber .45, M1911 and M1911A1." The "M1911 and M1911A1" are at the tail end of the nomenclature because they aren't the name of the weapon, they designate the model.Hawg said:
http://sightm1911.com/manual/Untitled-02.htm
44caliberkid
New member
Sgt. York not interesting enough for you?
My only knowledge regarding handguns in combat came from a Special Forces vet who served in the Vietnam war. Interestingly he preferred (and used) a Ruger Blackhawk chambered in 357 Mag. I don't remember his exact words, but it was something along the lines of it worked well on more than one occasion.
bamaranger
New member
Currahee!
Don't know anybody, but know of somebody.
Fellow named Donald Burgett was a paratrooper in WWII and saw considerable combat, jumped into Normandy, Holland and was in the Bulge as well. He wrote about his experiences in several books that he authored, among one of which was "Currahee!". I've read a couple of his books, seems as if he mentions use of "his" .45.
Burgett had has father acquire a pistol for him, which was mailed to Burgett beneath a fruit cake (I think), the gun turned out to be a nickeled M1911 .45.
Don't know anybody, but know of somebody.
Fellow named Donald Burgett was a paratrooper in WWII and saw considerable combat, jumped into Normandy, Holland and was in the Bulge as well. He wrote about his experiences in several books that he authored, among one of which was "Currahee!". I've read a couple of his books, seems as if he mentions use of "his" .45.
Burgett had has father acquire a pistol for him, which was mailed to Burgett beneath a fruit cake (I think), the gun turned out to be a nickeled M1911 .45.
Law Enforcement use of 45 ACP. Not too long ago two of my fellow officers were involved in a shooting while executing an arrest warrant. The one emptied his Glock 21 into the bad guy and the other put another six Speer Gold Dot 230 Gr HP's into him before he went down and stopped shooting. Both had 100% hits. The bad guy either wasn't impressed enough to care or never heard of the "legendary" knock down power of the .45 ACP...
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Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I had a PC in RVN that carried a 45 and he earned a Navy Cross as an enlisted man previously. I heard him firing it beside me but wasn't paying attention to who he was shooting at; however, he was real sharp, experienced and seemed to have faith in his choice. He could carry whatever he wanted. My CO carried a M1 Williams which I found interesting--had one at home and still do. Pretty slow rate of fire but dependable.
My father is deceased now but he was a Vietnam Vet. He was a First Sergeant in Vietnam and carried a 1911.
His story was that he only used it once. He said was running some kind of supply convoy and they were ambushed by a poorly resourced NVA unit. He said he emptied a magazine at the tree line where the enemy was approaching from. He realized afterwards that likely all shots after the third one went well over the heads of the approaching enemy as he was so excited in the moment. When he fired the last shot he noticed his arms were at about a 45 degree angle and he was no longer aiming. He only had two magazines so he saved the second one in case they actually got close enough.
He did notice that the machine guns were much more effective at ending the attack than his 45.
His story was that he only used it once. He said was running some kind of supply convoy and they were ambushed by a poorly resourced NVA unit. He said he emptied a magazine at the tree line where the enemy was approaching from. He realized afterwards that likely all shots after the third one went well over the heads of the approaching enemy as he was so excited in the moment. When he fired the last shot he noticed his arms were at about a 45 degree angle and he was no longer aiming. He only had two magazines so he saved the second one in case they actually got close enough.
He did notice that the machine guns were much more effective at ending the attack than his 45.