.45 GAP vs .45 ACP

44 AMP said:
What are the "advantages" offered by the .45GAP, if its NOT in a GLock pistol?? I see none. Because there are none.
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Precisely.

My personal theory is that Glock saw LE agencies ditch their 9mm Glocks for equivalent .40 S&W Glocks and concluded that those agencies preferred a bigger bullet and had no problem with the capacity tradeoff; thus, if Glock were to offer those same-size pistols with an EVEN BIGGER bullet, maybe MORE agencies would consider such a trade!

Unfortunately, they failed to correctly read the tea leaves and realize that LE agencies were shifting back to 9mm.

Another possible factor was a subtle inferiority complex about always using someone else's cartridges — the 9mm Luger, the .40 Smith & Wesson (their arch rival!), and the .45 Automatic Colt Pistol. We want there to be a GLOCK® cartridge, doggone it! :rolleyes:
 
The G21 frame is just too big for many people. The 45GAP was designed to give very similar performance to standard pressure 45 ACP, but fit in a frame the same size as the 9mm G17 series. But 45 ACP can always be loaded hotter and virtually no one really considers 45 ACP or 45 GAP to be any better than 9mm loads today.

The GA State Patrol had a short fling with the 45 GAP. Their testing showed 9mm to be every bit as effective as either 45 round and the G17 held 7 more rounds in the same size weapon with less recoil. They dumped the GAP after just a few years and have gone to G17's.
 
.45GAP

My brother in law got a heck of a deal on a Springfield XD in .45 GAP. It actually shoots well, the only problem is it is rapidly becoming a hand loader's only cartridge.
 
Grip circumference is not the only difference in 45 GAP vs 45 acp Glocks.

Glock 21 is about 5.5'' height.
Glock 30 is about 4.8'' height with oversize magazine base to accommodate pinky (leaving a little gap between the magazine base & frame).
Glock 38 is about 5'' height.
 
Walt Sherrill said:
It's only in the last several years (long after the .45 GAP was introduced) that double-stack .45 semi-autos with reasonable grip sizes have become available.
Aquila Blanca said:
I have to disagree with this statement. I've been carrying and shooting double stack para-Ordnance 1911s for almost 20 years, since long before the invention of the .45 GAP. The grip circumference of a para double stack is only a little larger than that of a single stack 1911, and FAR smaller than the Glocks in .45 ACP.
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You're right. I mistated. I should have said "non-1911-like (SA) guns. Not that many 1911s or SA weapons in use by law enforcement agencies -- and those are where the .45 GAP got its start. Lots of double-stack .45s in the gun game venues, however. I suspect that had SIG come out with the P-227 years ago, I would have had one of them, too. And my XDm Competition fits me much better than a Glock 21.

My Witness Sport Long Slide was much "handier" (smaller through the grip) than my CZ-97B (which was larger in the grip area than my CZ-75-based 9mm and .40 guns. But even the CZ-75B can be a challenge for a lot of shooters, because of the LONG trigger pull.
 
Don P said:
The GAP case is .130 shorter in length. That's the only difference.
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But .130" is slightly more than 1/8 of an inch. If they can reduce the fore-to-aft length of the grip frame by 1/8 of an inch, that reduces the circumference by 1/4 of an inch. That's enough to make a difference.
 
There are also minor differences in the case head and extractor groove dimensions, and the GAP cartridge ALWAYS uses a small pistol primer, whereas .45 ACP has traditionally used large pistol primers but a few brands of ammo have used small primers recently.
 
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What are the "advantages" offered by the .45GAP, if its NOT in a GLock pistol?? I see none. Because there are none.
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the XD was made, briefly, in .45 GAP. (I remember a gun shop offering me a good deal on a 45GAP XD. Ordered by mistake -- he thought he was ordering .45 ACP. I passed.)
 
Thank You For The Input

From what I gather the .45 GAP is good, but y'all prefer .45 ACP. I also gathered that .45 GAP won't last, if my verdict is incorrect, please correct me.

Gun Maverick
 
I think the whole premise that the grip 'girth' is a real factor in the shooter's ability to effectively handle the weapon was probably where the train went off the rails. Not addressing the the OP's question here, just saying, the idea that the cartridge--with a risky future--could be fit into existing products is probably way further along in explaining the cartridge's existence than anything else.

A shooter who finds a standard 1911 grip 'too big' must have really tiny hands indeed...mine are 'average' based on an actual survey of about 1,500 or more random people around the world. I think they're short and stubby, and I find the 1911 pretty small in my hand, although comfortable. If you find the S&W M&P MP45 .45 Auto double-stack grip 'too big', then I'd have to say you have far smaller than average hands and no one should be engineering a solution for an entire market around that shooter, just from a marketing standpoint...unless you can afford to target tiny little niche markets. Which GLock can do, in my view.
 
The Speer brochure shows the real difference between the .45 GAP and the .45 ACP. As mentioned earlier, the difference is in the base of the case. The .45 GAP base is thicker, and has a more tapered interior base, making it stronger than the .45 ACP case in that area. In addition, the use of the small pistol primer allows more of the case to be solid, increasing the strength of the case head.

Both those changes were made to allow use of a pressure equal to or greater than that of the .45 ACP, while avoiding the case head failures associated with the .45 ACP. Just reshaping the case interior would not be enough, since users might still use original ACP cases, thus creating a situation where one kind of case would be OK, where another, indistinguishable, case would be less strong.

So the answer, a shorter case that would have a slightly different rim, was found. And the reasons for its being were promptly covered up, lest Glock customers realize that the .45 Glock already on the market was not as good as it could be.

Jim
 
The fact that Glock has given away several thousand .45 GAP pistols to state LEO agencies should be a clue that they have been desperate from the start for it to be a success. :confused:
 
jrothWA said:
Look at it this way...
which ammo will you find faster?
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For folks who roll their own, it's a non-issue.

I don't handload, but haven't had many problems finding ammo.

For self-defense ammo, it would be easier to find a larger variety of .45 ACP than .45 GAP, but I don't really shoot all that much SD-type ammo. If I change brands I'll shoot a box or two to convince myself that what I'm using works in the gun, but thereafter will only keep a box or two of that on hand, and some in the gun.

For regular range use, I buy in bulk (from Georgia Arms), and GA's price for ACP or GAP is basically the same -- whether it's hollow point or hardball.

In other words, if you plan a bit, it's not a big deal. And at times during the great ammo famine of the past couple of years, I was able to get GAP when I couldn't get ACP. (It's harder for me to find .22 and .22 WMR for my Kel-Tec PMR-30.)
 
lee n. field said:
the XD was made, briefly, in .45 GAP.
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IIRC at least 2 or 3 models of 1911-type pistol were also offered. I've found a Shooting Times review of a .45 GAP Sp'fld Defender but my Google-Fu hasn't revealed the others yet.

That's why I characterized non-Glocks in the caliber as "near-nonexistent". There are a few others out there but they're unicorns. AFAIK all were dropped very quickly.

This discussion HAS got me wondering if S&W moon clips will fit well enough for the GAP cartridge to be fired in their .45 ACP revolvers and the Governor. :D (This would not work without moons because the chambers are cut to .45 ACP or .410 shotshell length, so the GAP cartridges would fall into the cylinder and fail to ignite.)
 
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allow use of a pressure equal to or greater than that of the .45 ACP, while avoiding the case head failures associated with the .45 ACP.
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Would the "case head failures" in .45ACP be related to GLock pistols????

While everyone knows (or should know) that you can overload anything, and get case head failures, it never seemed to be an issue (or common) until after the GLock shows up.

case head failures in .38 Super, from guys running it HOT (in 1911A1 class guns) to make major power factor in some games, yes. heard a bit about that. Nary a peep about issues with the .45acp case head, UNTIL Glock "ka-b00ms" mostly in .45ACP and .40S&W.

From what I understand (and I'm no GLock expert) when the ka-booms started happening, GLock blamed handloads, said there was no problem, their pistol was perfection.

Then they redesigned the chamber giving it more support...and the ka-boom issue essentially went away. Alles in Ordnung hier! :rolleyes:

Perhaps the .45GAP was Glock's solution to a problem with the .45ACP that GLock created in their own guns???
 
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