44Magnum The Most Versatile Handgun Caliber

[SaxonPig]

"THE 45COLT WILL DO ANYTHING A 44MAG CAN DO PERIOD ! This has been PROVED in the ballistics lab many times over now. GO READ !!!
Furthermore, it does it a a lot less pressure, a lot less recoil, and a damnsite less noise. It can also do it in guns the same size as the 44MAg and be lighter to tote because of the bigger holes in theBBL and cylinder. THERE ARE NO QUESTIONS IN THIS MATTER PERIOD....
And so it goes " -Wil Terry

You seem much more passionate about this issue than am I (be careful you don't wear out your cap lock key). Also, you seem absolutely convinced that you are correct, nobody else knows anything and that yours is the final word on the subject so there appears to be no point in adding any further comments.

I would add for the safety of someone reading this that it is not safe to load the vast majority of guns in 45 Colt to do what Wil Terry says can be done. Only a very few guns in 45 Colt are strong enough to handle loads that will rival the 44 Magnum.

 

[spacecoast]

Given that the .44 Mag will easily fit in some of the old Spanish revolvers imported into the US postr WW I, and given that people did that....

Yeah Mike, you got me there, but I daresay the 45 Colt ammo cautions are a lot more relevant with today's mix of shootable revolvers.

 

[newfrontier45]

You seem much more passionate about this issue than am I (be careful you don't wear out your cap lock key). Also, you seem absolutely convinced that you are correct, nobody else knows anything and that yours is the final word on the subject so there appears to be no point in adding any further comments.

I would add for the safety of someone reading this that it is not safe to load the vast majority of guns in 45 Colt to do what Wil Terry says can be done. Only a very guns in 45 Colt are strong enough to handle loads that will rival the 44 Magnum.

Well, Terry has probably handloaded and fired more rounds through sixguns than any one else present. Not to mention working in a ballistics lab for a major ammunition company. So yeah, I reckon his opinion is probably worth more than the average keyboard pecker. I might not always agree with what Terry says but when he speaks, smart shooters listen.

Yes, thank you safety police, I think we all know that the .45Colt can only be loaded heavy in certain guns. I'd say there's more than "very few" capable of handling such loads.

Ruger Blackhawk
Ruger Vaquero
Ruger Bisley
Ruger Redhawk
Colt Anaconda
Dan Wesson revolvers
MRI BFR revolvers
Freedom Arms 83
Freedom Arms 97
T/C Contender
Marlin 1894
Rossi 1892
Winchester 1892
Henry Big Boy
Winchester 94
Winchester 1895
NEF Handi-Rifle

Did I miss any?

 

[Deaf Smith]

So all those guns can take .44 Magnum class loads?

I mean 250gr slugs at 1250 from 4 inch barrels?

And can older S&W .45 Colt revolvers use those loads? How about all those Beretta .45 LC revolvers? And all those Italian SAA revolvers? .44 Magnum class loads?

Spanish .44s taking .44 Magnums? Say where can you buy one of those? Never seen them (but I have seen many a Spanish .38 revolver.)

Now I don't care if you use a .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .45 LC as your favorite 'most versatile' revolver. All will do well from gerbils to bear if the platform will take it (both you and the gun.)

But at least ALL guns chambered for the .44 magnum will take the pressure and scant few .44 specials will chamber a .44 magnum round.

Many a gun, weak or strong, was made for the .45 LC.

Deaf

 

[newfrontier45]

And just like any other firearm chambered in any other cartridge, it is up to the individual to know the limitations of his firearm and load it accordingly. If you step back and shed your pre-conceived notions, if you can avoid loading .44Magnums or .22LR's in your .45Colt, or .270's in your ..30-06, you can keep heavy loads out of weaker .45's. It's simple and quite intuitive, as long as you don't think we should live in a nanny state.

PS, and no, some .44Mag loads do not belong in certain .44Mag guns.

 

[buck460XVR]

THE 45COLT WILL DO ANYTHING A 44MAG CAN DO PERIOD ! This has been PROVED in the ballistics lab many times over now. GO READ !!!
Furthermore, it does it a a lot less pressure, a lot less recoil, and a damnsite less noise.

Been playin' around with the recoil calculator using my Lyman and Hornady manuals using their published numbers for velocities and powder charge. Regardless of which manual I use, when comparing similar bullets weights and producing similar velocities with jacketed bullets(240 and 300 gr), since it takes more powder in the .45 case, the recoil is always higher than in a .44 mag when both guns weigh the same. Usually not by much, but never was it lower. They didn't say anything about noise produced.

This argument between the .44 and the .45 has been goin' on since these types of forums became popular on the interweb. Hate to guess how many thousands of threads there has been about it on the various firearm websites that abound here. Odds are when we're all dead and gone, our grandkids will still be hagglin' over it. Far as I'm concerned, they both do the job for what they are intended. Very similar to good whiskeys. Pick your favorite poison and enjoy.

 

[SaxonPig]

I thought we were talking revolvers. Sure, most rifles are strong enough.

Oh, and if you say Wil Terry is an expert, OK. But in my experience experts don't need to scream their message and a real scientist allows for the views of others.

 

[Winchester_73]

I think its obvious that a 9mm Glock trumps both any 44 and any 45

 

[Nanuk]

I think its obvious that a 9mm Glock trumps both any 44 and any 45

That would depend on who got the first hit.


I prefer the 44 Magnum so there. I have no scientific data to support my choice, only personal preference. The 44 Magnum does anything I need from wild to mild. It is a dandy CCW piece and works well for HD the only trick is you need to be proficient enough to handle her.

 

[Ruger45LC]

The .44 is a fine and dandy cartridge, and quite versatile for sure.


But, I'll take my .45 Colt Bisley Convertible. I can shoot plinking loads, heavy loads moving out fast and punching bigger holes, and drop in the .45 ACP cylinder and shoot those, along with .45 Super.

 

[spacecoast]

if you can avoid loading .44Magnums or .22LR's in your .45Colt, or .270's in your ..30-06, you can keep heavy loads out of weaker .45's.

I think most of us can figure that out, the point is that creating heavy .45 Colt loads that readily chamber in a wide variety of both new and old guns is a riskier endeavor than just about any other cartridge.

Ensuring that such loads are properly labeled (and continue to be properly labeled) and well understood for what they are, even after you are dead or otherwise incapable of shooting them, is a fairly sobering thought. I'm not sure I would to put that continuing responsibility on my kids/grandkids or whoever inherits my guns and ammo inventory in the event of my untimely death. Maybe your will should include a "Be sure to destroy or manually disassemble all my .45 Colt reloads" clause.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

my local gun builder & I always talk about that when ever we chamber a new custom gun ( rifle or handgun ) plus for me, my FIL was my mentor, & all my reloaded ammo has a full recipe & ballistic info on each & every box the cartridges I load are in...

it's funny the turn this thread has taken ( I'm sure as was directed by the OP ) that we are talking about "versatility" & yet are talking about a magnum in the 1st place...

hey... I love the boomers as much as the next guy, but big bear medicine does not make for a versatile cartridge, in fact the bigger & more powerful we get, the further away from truly versatile we get...

I still stand by my 38 / 357 suggestion, but, IMO the poster that thought 9mm, is probably just about as close... however I do hold the opinion, that a revolver cartridge is actually more versatile, as load levels can go from pop gun to the maximum the gun can safely handle without effecting the function...

unfortunately I think this thread started as a chest thumping topic, & has continued down that path... & has absolutely nothing to do with versatility

 

[newfrontier45]

I think most of us can figure that out, the point is that creating heavy .45 Colt loads that readily chamber in a wide variety of both new and old guns is a riskier endeavor than just about any other cartridge.

It's no different. IMHO, this is a non-issue for anyone who has actually put any thought or effort into it. Only seems to be a problem for those that never have. Which is quite typical.

One can use any of the following or any combination thereof:

Different head stamps (not unlike the .270/.30-06 reference)

Color coded boxes.

Bullets that are too long to chamber in lesser guns.

Specially labeled boxes.

Mark your case heads with a marker.

Personally, I use color coded boxes with a warning label.

It's no different than those "rifle only" .32-20 and .44-40 loads that were marketed a hundred years ago for 1892's but NOT 1873's. Unfortunately, much of the current generation of shooters depends on the nanny state to take care of them. Rather than independent thinking and self reliance.

 

[spacecoast]

Not trying to be argumentative, but I would point out that several of your methods have issues when it comes to the possibility of your ammo outliving you:

Different head stamps (not unlike the .270/.30-06 reference)

This seems to be a pretty subtle method that may not jump out to someone examining your loads. Note to heirs... "all my Colt .45 reloads in nickel-plated Federal brass should only be shot in my Ruger revolvers made after 19xx".

Imagine the year is 2040... "Joe found these rounds that his Grand-dad made up with big 300 grain .45 Colt bullets that chamber perfectly in Jamar's beat-up old JUDGE. Let's head out to the range and finish these bad boys off!"

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3372251&postcount=10

Color coded boxes.

Again, what/where is the magic decoder ring for different colored boxes? Just because you understand your system doesn't mean everyone else does, or wants to learn.

Bullets that are too long to chamber in lesser guns.

... and you can guarantee they won't chamber in any gun lacking sufficient steel to handle them, even those you have never seen or heard of? Longer than the chamber on a JUDGE?

Specially labeled boxes.

This is the most straightforward and reliable way of doing it, assuming someone doesn't play a trick on you or your heirs and dump all your ammo on the floor or worse, switch the contents of a few boxes just for fun right before a range trip.

Mark your case heads with a marker.

Same issue as with the colored boxes. Markers also tend to fade over time.


I own several Ruger semis and think they generally do a great job building reliable, quality guns, but the more I think about it, the more I think they (and Freedom Arms, etc.) made a mistake in adapting their heavy iron for the .45 Colt given the number of old (and new, yet weaker) guns out there. Moving up to the .454 Casull (only) would have been a better choice IMHO.

 

[newfrontier45]

Sorry my friend but shooters have been doing this for a few decades now and I have yet to hear of such catastrophic misunderstandings. Ever read about Chicken Little?

If you are really THAT afraid of such farfetched circumstances I suggest you sell all your guns, live in a bubble, stick your thumb in your mouth and seek psychiatric attention.

pho·bi·a
[foh-bee-uh]
noun
-a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.

I own several Ruger semis and think they generally do a great job building reliable, quality guns, but the more I think about it, the more I think they (and Freedom Arms, etc.) made a mistake in adapting their heavy iron for the .45 Colt given the number of old (and new, yet weaker) guns out there. Moving up to the .454 Casull (only) would have been a better choice IMHO.

As a relatively neophyte handloader and casual shooter who lists all their guns in their sig line, perhaps what you need is to further your education. The folks who have been there and done that for a long time don't typically appreciate being told how wrong they are by somebody without a clue.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Everyone simmer down, please...

 

[spacecoast]

The folks who have been there and done that for a long time don't typically appreciate being told how wrong they are by somebody without a clue.

When you don't like the message, shoot down the messenger. Carry on, Mr. Self-Proclaimed Expert, and good luck. Maybe someone will take the time to introduce you to the the possibility that you might be wrong, apparently nobody's ever bothered to do that. Too Bad.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Everyone knock it off.

NOW.

 

[newfrontier45]

When you don't like the message, shoot down the messenger. Carry on, Mr. Self-Proclaimed Expert, and good luck. Maybe someone will take the time to introduce you to the the possibility that you might be wrong, apparently nobody's ever bothered to do that. Too Bad.

I'm not a self-proclaimed expert but WE have been doing this for decades. That is an irrefutable fact. This is also not the first time we've heard nonsense like this. The things you're questioning have been in practice by a lot of shooters for a long time. The question is not whether or not I'm wrong, it's whether or not your fear is justifiable. History tells us no.

There is countless documentation for real, credible authority on this issue. Starting with John Linebaugh.

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings.htm

 

[spacecoast]

Everyone knock it off.

Sorry Mike, I just think it's important to point some things out that seem obvious to me (and which have yet to be refuted). I had no intent of getting personal, but when provoked and subjected to a variety of derogatory names and allusions I am not afraid to shoot back, so to speak. I'm sure Mr. NF45 is a very experienced shooter and reloader, but I also take my shooting and handloading seriously, and everyone is capable of learning something (I think), even if it's just about themselves.