44 vs 454

C

cfr1000

Inactive
I want to start out I was never really interested in carrying a pistol until last week. I was out hunting a little ways out of town and my girlfriend and toddler had wanted to tag along, their first time in the boat that year. Got to a nice clearing on the tundra as some caribou were passing by caught one and started to clean and get the meat off. 50 yards or so I hear something coming through the brush and out pops a momma grizzly with two cubs in tow. My first thought was to make some noise and try to scare her. That didnt work. She charged and by the time I was able to get my rifle off my back she decided she had scared me enough and stopped about 20 feet away. I backed away and she claimed the kill. I had barely enough time to unshoulder the rifle and I doubt that one shot with a .308 with a scope would be enough to down the bear unless I took the time to get everything lined up. 4 seconds isnt enough for me to do all that.

I have a 7.62x25 and a .22 revolver but neither are really adequate for anything but plinking. I need something that will stop a bear with a quick headshot but nothing that will be unwieldy. A buddy reccommended a ruger alaskan in .454 but that seems overkill? I cant imagine going to the range and shooting boxes of that up.
 
Grizzlies? With a PISTOL? No thanks.....But if I had to choose, it would be a smith and wesson 460. But man, I'd hate to be in that situation. Trying to crack open a Grizzly skull with a handgun is a tough proposition.

I would have tried to go for the rifle first, then tried to "scare her with noise." However, a mother grizzly with a couple cubs over a free meal? They aren't going anywhere. You and your family need to move out before they decide they're still hungry.
 
1 - If you're not willing to take the shot with a scoped rifle in a more powerful caliber than .454, then you wouldn't be willing to take the shot with a .44 or .454.

2 - Did mama bear with cubs influence your decision not to shoot, and yield the recent kill to her? If so, a handgun won't change that.

A .454 is a handful to handle. Your only three choices in that caliber in a DA revolver are the Ruger Alaskan (snubby super redhawk), the Taurus Raging Bull, and the S&W X-frame in .460.

The X-frame is massive and I can't imagine carrying it as a "just in case" gun. Too slow to get into play, even with the 4" barrel. The frame is huge.

The Taurus... is a taurus. I also think they don't have an option for a short barrel in the Raging Bull.

The Ruger is the last choice. Lighter than the other choices, though still over 40 ounces.

Practice is expensive. Getting eaten by a bear is not expensive. You make your choices.
 
I had enough time from when she came out of the bushes to stand up and holler, start to unshoulder the rifle and she charged, I had it cocked and coming up to my shoulder but she stopped. I was more concerned with getting out of there rather then taking a rushed shot and ******* it off more, wifey was in the boat waiting as I was almost done. Sorry rjrivero I didn't catch that, I meant revolver :D
 
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS OVERKILL.

there is either DEAD, which means that it is no longer a problem, or it is ALIVE, and that means that it can still be dangerous.

NEVER USE AN INADEQUATE WEAPON BECAUSE "IT'S GOOD ENOUGH."

I don't consider any handgun to be proper charging grizzly protection. I personally know of a charging grizzly that was stopped by a .357, but it took all 6 rounds to kill, and I believe that the situation would have gone the other way with no difficulty.

If it is in charge, you need to go deep through the body. a moving target that needs 2-3 feet of bullet hole to get it bleeding badly enough to stop it. If it is presenting to you otherwise, and not moving, the .44 would be adequate for a kill. Head on? I don't know.

My feeling would be to use a .454. You are obviously in grizzly territory, and right now, living on the grace of God alone. You think the next time will be just as lucky?

(good to hear about you, and the other two.)
 
Frankly, tactics-improvement will be more beneficial than a second firearm, I think.

Keep the rifle handy.

Teach the missus to shoot with the rifle, or get her her own rifle.

A .308 with some good penetrating solids or dense partitioned bullets will do better than a .44 or .454, anyways.
 
A paraphrase of an older post.

Can you draw your handgun and hit a softball that is bounced at you?
That's what trying to hit a charging grizzly in the head would be like.
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I'm not trying to be a smart @$$,,,
But that statement made sense to my old self.

Just for the heck of it, the next time I went to the range,,,
I took a softball and tried hitting it at a slow roll.

Softballs of the world,,,
You need have no fear of me!

I work at a University with a wildlife conservation research professor,,,
Every summer he goes up to Canada for a couple of months,,,
He goes out with these Canadian Forest Service folk,,,
They spend weeks out in bear country.

They mostly carry either 12 gauge magnum shotguns with slugs,,,
A few carry rifles in big game calibers (45-70, .375 Mag),,,
Most also carry a short barrel pistol in .454 or bigger,,,
The pistol is to be their "last ditch" weapon only,,,
He said they never put the long guns down.

Sam told me that they consider the .44 magnum round to be inadequate,,,
They also said the short barrel is so if the bear gets a hug on them,,,
The short barrel might allow them to maneuver the gun.

They also all wear a canister of Bear Spray around their necks,,,
He showed me the can and it is on what I would call a "panic cord",,,
Grab the can, pull down hard, and the thing starts a huge spray that lasts about 30 seconds.

I would wear three canisters,,,
And sleep with them!

This is all second hand information,,,
But it is from professionals in the field,,,
And every thing they say makes sense to me.

My point is that I would probably want a short barrel 12 gauge shotgun,,,
Rather that any kind of handgun for defense against a bear,,,
I would definitely have a canister of bear spray as well.

.
 
S&W X-Frame is too big (and expensive). But it's available in the most powerful cartridges: .500S&W and .460 (will also shoot .454).

Taurus Raging Bull is a fine weapon also. According to their 2010 catalog, a snubby .454 is available. I haven't seen one in a store yet. http://www.taurususa.com/2010catalog/?catalog_page=46

Ruger Alaskan would be my first choice, in .454 Casull.
 
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Can you draw your handgun and hit a softball that is bounced at you?
That's what trying to hit a charging grizzly in the head would be like.
Click to expand...

Uh oh, I'm getting paraphrased...:eek: Actually, the head is plenty big, it's the brain that's softball sized.

You've already got something with two or three times the stopping power of a .454 in your rifle. What you need is a proper scope that dials down to 1X so you can actually see something at close range. If you're hunting in grizzly country, step up to 180 grain slugs in your .308, get a low powered variable scope (and keep it at 1X) and you're good to go.

Don't even think about a handgun as a replacement for a long gun when dealing with bears. It makes no sense on any level.
 
I've really got to agree with that prior post. A rifle really is the minimum for facing an oncoming BIG bear, and something loaded with deep penetrating rounds. There just really isn't a handgun strong enough to make a real solid bear kill, and in a lot of cases, people are not going to be as accurate shooting a handgun as they would a rifle under duress.

I disagree with the scope, if you're hunting, sure, use a scope that can go to 1, and keep it ready for a bear. If you are carrying that thing with no purpose other than to keep new mothers from eating you to protect their newborns, I'd personally forgo the scope and use irons. Take the thing off during off season.

If you are carrying it only for "protection," you don't need a scope on a rifle. You can see well enough without it at any range you need to worry about.
 
I disagree with the scope, if you're hunting, sure, use a scope that can go to 1, and keep it ready for a bear. If you are carrying that thing with no purpose other than to keep new mothers from eating you to protect their newborns, I'd personally forgo the scope and use irons. Take the thing off during off season.
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Makes sense to me!
 
So my S&W 500 doesnt have that x frame that is too big??
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I don't think you read my post correctly. Of course it does. What I meant (and maybe it didn't come across clearly), is that yes it's big, but it does come in some powerful cartridges, including the .500 and .460.
 
cfr1000 said:
I had enough time from when she came out of the bushes to stand up and holler, start to unshoulder the rifle and she charged, I had it cocked and coming up to my shoulder but she stopped. I was more concerned with getting out of there rather then taking a rushed shot and ******* it off more, wifey was in the boat waiting as I was almost done. Sorry rjrivero I didn't catch that, I meant revolver :D
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That order of operation makes me feel a lot better. However, I would have unshouldered and readied the rifle first. I'm just glad you got out of dodge, even if you had to leave dinner behind.

There's no real stopping a mamma griz feeding the family.
 
Got to a nice clearing on the tundra as some caribou were passing by caught one and started to clean and get the meat off.
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How the hell you catch a caribou :confused:

I had barely enough time to unshoulder the rifle and I doubt that one shot with a .308 with a scope would be enough to down the bear unless I took the time to get everything lined up. 4 seconds isnt enough for me to do all that.
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I have a 7.62x25 and a .22 revolver
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So what happened to the 308 you unshouldered :rolleyes:

Some may be eatin this BS up :barf:
 
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