.44 magnum for ccw?

I would wanna go with about a 4-6" barrel to get some effect out of that load while still being able to conceal and sit down while doing it. 6 inch is pushing the envelope on that though. I would also go with 210gr. "factory" loads which are usually around 800 fpe to get the best effect per recoil and blast.
 
This has probably been said before....

....shoot what you are comfortable with. if you are both comfortable and capable with the .44 magnum, then by all means consider it. I would highly recommend some lighter loads or even .44 spl. to avoid the over-penetration issue. The magnum does put you in more danger regarding liability, as there is more chance of the round damaging things not meant to be damaged :eek:

That being said, my S&W Magnum has been my companion on several occasions. Most recently a long road trip from Mississippi to Washington State where fear of carjackings on abandoned desert highway prompted me to carry a firearm capable of shooting through a car door if need be :( It is also comforting in bear country here in WA. Although it's 8 3/8" barrel does not lend itself to concealment year-round, it is grand for cold weather under a coat.

If you are comfortable and capable, well educated and cautious, I see no reason the .44 cannot be an excellent sef/home defense round.
 
The 44 mag, 44 spl., 45 Colt, 41 mag, and 10mm are effectively dead to self-defense bullet design at this point. Some of the big-bores get attention for hunting loads.

All the money for design goes to the autos at this point. That is where the sales are, the 9mmx19, 357 SIG, 40 S&W, 45 auto, 45 GAP. Even 32's and 380's generate plenty of sales.

The 38 spl.'s and 357's eventually get some cross-over from the new auto loads but that's because there's an enormous market for those calibers.

Revolvers, especially in calibers more often sold in single-actions, get cowboy loads but not state of the art design. The fact is I don't see a thing wrong with a single-action 44 or 45 for use for self defense if it happens when you don't have an auto pistol handy. The single action is no less effective today than in it's heyday.

Do I think the situation is wrong? Yes! If you need to use what you have, you want the best technology available and I think you should have it available to you. Is my being right going to change anything? Of course not.

Stick with the mainstream calibers in sales cause better loads for odd-ball calibers just ain't in the cards. I hope I'm wrong but I kind of doubt it.
 
The .44 Magnum is hardly an oddball load. It's just a very powerful load. The primary reason that this load isn't used by police, or recommended for home defense, is because of it's penetration ability. You DO NOT want something that is going to go through the BG then your neighbors house.

Shooting a BG with a high power hunting rifle would have the same effect. You would probably destroy a BG with a 240 or 300 grain .44 Mag hollow-point, but the problem comes in with what could possibly be behind it. A .45 or a 9X19 doesn't have that kind of power. Yes, even those rounds could go though a BG and then your walls, but the chances are much less.
 
.44Remington Magnum for defense -

what do you guys think?
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I think there's far too much mis/dis -information, bias and ignorance against the .44 Remington Magnum as a defensive round to make it a viable choice.

:barf:

Sorry. This horse has been beaten to death over and over.
 
I've carried my 3" 629 on occasion in the past, but have stopped doing so for the most part. I carried the 165gr/1300fps load from Cor-Bon. Gradually, over time, I began to wonder two things: 1) How effective is a fast-moving bullet if it only has the sectional density of a dime?, and 2) What's the point of toting this neutered .44 loading when I've got other calibers that will deliver nearly as scary ballistics, with heavier-for-caliber bullets that are still inside their design velocity envelope?

See, that's the biggest problem with the .44 as a totin' iron: ammo selection. Almost every JHP on the market in the caliber is designed with a heavy jacket to control expansion so that the bullet still has enough momentum to break Bambi's off-side shoulder. This is fantastic for hunting, but less than optimal for self-defense, unless there's been a rash of ATM robberies committed by wild boars in your town. Under those circumstances, why bother carrying a JHP at all, since it won't even begin to expand while transiting the BG? Also, since there's very little danger of night blindness in the deer woods, at least for legal hunters, there's no attempt to suppress the "flashiness" of the powder, and most JHP loads give off an actinic white fireball the size of a pumpkin when fired out of a short-barrelled wheelgun.

I would carry my .44 almost all the time if Speer would release a 240gr Gold Dot tailored for optimal expansion at velocities just over 1000fps and loaded with defense-appropriate flash-suppressed powder. Then you'd have bore size, decent velocity, and all the penetration and expansion one could want.
 
Rusty S . . .

"The 44 mag, 44 spl., 45 Colt, 41 mag, and 10mm are effectively dead to self-defense bullet design at this point."
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With respect, I strongly disagree.

To support my position I checked Georgia Arms (only the .41 magnum NOT available in their Shear Power Plus Gold Dot line), Winchester (all five available in their Super X/Silvertip lines), and Speer/CCI (all five available). I could have investigated further, but I am sure you get my point.

I do not argue that the more-common semiautomatic rounds are, well, more common. However, the .44 magnum, 10mm, .41 magnum, .44 Special, and .45 Colt are certainly available in target/plinking, hunting, and PERSONAL DEFENSE loads. More important, it is clear that successful and economically viable projectile research from the "common" calibers is rapidly transferred to the less ubiquitous ones.
 
Rwk,

Let's look at that list:

.44 Mag: The only defense-oriented loads on the market are flyweight "Tactical" loads from Cor-Bon & Triton, and Winchester's antique Silvertip. There are .44 Mag Hydrashoks and Gold Dots, but these are hunting oriented loads. There probably hasn't been a .429" bullet designed specifically for use against two-legged varmints in the last decade and a half except for:

.44 Spl: The one bright spot is CCI's 200gr Gold Dot, a bullet specifically designed to expand at the moderate velocities offered by the caliber, and within the recoil parameters dictated by the recent spate of K/L-frame five shot snubbies. Other than that, your choices are the absurdly light bullets from Cor-Bon, or the paleolithic Silvertip and LSWC-HP designs. They generally work, but they don't represent a lot of recent R&D, if you know what I mean...

.45 Colt: I can't think of a single recent self-defense design other than the flying dimes from Cor-Bon. The new 250gr Gold Dots? Have you tried them? They've just barely started to expand after six milk jugs. Not exactly a varmint load...

.41 Magnum: The chambering has experienced a rennaissance in available, modern loads... ...for hunting. You can get the Platinum Tip and the Gold Dot to ward off gangs of marauding black bears, but are stuck with ye olde Silvertip or Cor-Bon 170gr for defense.

10mm: The only one of the bunch with a bright light on the horizon, since modern bullets are readily plagiarized from the .40 S&W, and can generally stand to be overdriven a little without suffering performance failures from too-rapid expansion.
 
Tams,

I take exception to your positions rarely, and then only with trepidation. However:

1) My larder has a few hundred rounds of 200 grain, Georgia Arms, .45 Colt, Gold Dots that provide 1100 FPS velocities ten feet from the muzzle. Recognizing that is a relatively mild .45 Colt loading, it still has plenty of potency (IMHO) for personal defense.

2) Re Silvertips, I agree it is an older design, it sometimes sheds material, doesn’t always fully expand, and can separate. However, I believe it is still a reasonable defensive projectile -- as are its chronological peers from Remington, Federal, etc. I would agree they are not optimal, but you and I still carry 158 grain LSWCHPs, which remain effective despite their “seniority”.

My belief is new is sometimes -- perhaps often -- better, but that does not mean older is inadequate (perhaps I feel this way since, in another 18 months, I’ll be 60; therefore, this philosophy applies to a good deal more than cartridges).

Merry Christmas and many thanks for your continuing education -- Roy
 
Rwk,

Whoops! You're right, I forgot about the 200gr Gold Dots from GA. Still, though, wouldn't a 225 or 230gr Gold Dot be even nicer? Or a .45 Colt load with its own dedicated 230gr Golden Saber?

Like you, I use the Silvertips and LSWC-HP's with a light heart and a clear conscience because I don't believe in magic bullets, but it wouldn't offend me to be able to buy a nice, modern projectile in these calibers that had benefitted from the explosion in terminal ballistics research that has occured in the last decade or so. :)
 
I wholeheartedly agree!

Obviously, frequently we must take what the marketplace offers, not what would be optimal. It is a shame the latest technology hasn’t made it to most -- .38 Special/.357 magnum are the clear exception -- revolver calibers. However, I am sure we can all agree that current loadings are viable, if not ideal. And that was the only point I was attempting to make with Rusty. You don’t need a "magic bullet” -- a darn good thing since it’s an illusion -- to get the job done well (placement uber allis).

Merry Christmas -- Roy
 
I'd much rather get hit with an actual flying dime than a 165 gr cor-bon .44 spl load - maybe I'm confused, but it seems like you may be vastly underestimating the penetrating ability of these "flying dimes" - they sound like the answer to your conundrum. You don't need any sectional density at ALL *for external ballistics reasons* in a self-defense load of course, but you knew that - terminal ballistics reasons, yes. But they're going to penetrate quite adequately, probably blowing a hole clean through most violent agressors, and expand very well in addition (I don't know about others, but I'm less than 10" from sternum to spine). So do you just not believe cor-bons testing results re penetration of the flying dimes (in all calibers), or what? Then again, Tamara is raaaaarely wrong... Good question and discussion in any event. It just seems that the 165 grainer in .45 or .45 would be about the same sectional density as say, a 115 grain 9mm, or a 135 gr .40 cal bullet, and would those be considered in the same category of undesirable "flying dimes"? Dunno, just asking.
 
Don't get taken in by arm chair commando's...if you can quickly and accurately place your shots with ANY bullet that chambers in your 44 then you are as suitably armed as anyone
Bullet PLACEMENT, NOT bullet, wins every time
Not my first choice but whenever I'm traveling to or hunting my 3" 629 is on my side, I've trained with it enough to know I can hit a deer in the vitals at 70yds or a man in the head at 15yds...every time
What's the old saying...Beware the man with only one gun, he probably knows it well
 
There are .44 Mag Hydrashoks and Gold Dots, but these are hunting oriented loads.
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Federal Hydra-Shok 240 gr .44mag is a pure defense round according to Federal. It's listed as "Premium Personal Defense"

The Vital-Shok - American Eagle - Power-Shok are the ones that are hunting oriented.
 
I'm going to raise this issue for the umpteenth time. Just what sort of bad guys do you fellas expect to have to stop. Is your 83 year old neighbor going to break in and attack you with her umbrella? Is it more likely you'll have to deal with some drug crazed whacko who is impervious to pain and hell bent on death and destruction? Try double tapping one of those types with your .380 and see what it gains you. Dying a quick, brutal death is not my idea of a classy way to exit this life. Give me an "overpenetrating" big bore that can turn a prison hardened ex-con's internal organs to mush if you don't mind.
 
why dont we do this--

buy a .44 MAG shoot the living snot out of it and decide for yourself?
Thats what i did thirty years ago. I like it and dont want to be without one
my wife has a four inch Taurus M 44 for a home gun but doesn't carry it around. They are good solid double action big bores. In the final analysis there are no issues with the cartridge or the relaiblity of the weapon the only issues are with the operator. Are you elmer keith? I ain't .
 
You know, all of this talk of 44's and Elmer has me feeling nostalgiac. In a few hours I'm going on our annual Christmas Eve journeys. I'm off today and work Christmas. Anyway, I think I'll carry my 629 mountaingun. I hope I'm not under or over gunned. :p It will carry fine in an El Paso pancake under my coat and a speedloader or 2 in the pocket.
 
For over 30 years I've shot and hoarded 41's. Mosty Model 58's but now and then a M57 4".

In my late 20's I found that I couldn't handle the 4" 29's with the full charge loads then available. The shock to my hands and the blast effect disoriented me and kept me from putting a second 44 mag on target for a few seconds. I did manage to shoot full charge 41's at expert level but could shoot distinguished master with 125 grain 357's from a 2&1/2" Model 19. This year I finally let my last 58 go. I kept the faith for 30 years, but found that withoout regular practice even the "reduced" Silvertip loads that hasn't been available back then caused me to flinch. Oh yes. I preferred nickeled guns as blood from the web of my hand wouldn't eat the finish.

Today I carry a Bodyguard airweight and keep a double stack 380 loaded with 13+1 XTP's close at hand. I recently read Evan Marshal comment that one should use a 12 gauge or be prepared to shoot any pistol to slidelock ( or empty and then practice your reloading ) unless the offender goes down first.

A 38 special or 380 can kill a man - if you can get placement, placement, and placement, the three most important factors in handgun stopping power, still. I can get that placement faster with 38's and 380's. 32 acp, 41 mag, 45 Colt will all do the same if placed right.

I did note that the single actions are every bit as good as they ever were. It's a shame they don't seem to have the benefit of today's technology.

Merry Christmas to all!
 
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