My neighbor is moving and had a .454 Alaskan he was selling for $700, after looking on line I saw alot of the same model for 7 - 1100 depending so did not pick it up. I should have I think, but still the S&W .460 would be my preference for a short barrel blaster for the bush.
44 mag, or 454casull
- Thread starter thecelt
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Flyboy_451
New member
While I am not a fan of the big X-Frames from Smith and wesson, I wouldbe curious to see how much difference there is between the the 500 Smith and the 500 Linebaugh with short barrels (4"-5 1/2") with bullets in the 400grn range.
The Smith has a significant case capacity advantage, but I wonder how much of a role this plays when the barrel length gets short. I prefer short barrel "packing guns" over long barreled hand cannons.
JW
The Smith has a significant case capacity advantage, but I wonder how much of a role this plays when the barrel length gets short. I prefer short barrel "packing guns" over long barreled hand cannons.
JW
22-rimfire
New member
I think you made a good safe choice. But.....
These really big boomers are fun, but you take a beating and for what end? You really don't need one for bear protection for the most part. But they still are fun.
My take is if you want a big boomer, go for it, so you have the capability if nothing else. I wouldn't shoot puny loads in a 454 revolver. I have other revolvers for that.
I am a fan of the 480 Ruger and it is indeed my "big boomer". I have a SRH for deer hunting mostly, but am getting a BFR in that same caliber. You asked about ammo availability as an issue with the 454.... it might be relevant with the 480 Ruger, but honestly I can find all I need. It is not like I go out and shoot a 100 rounds in a single day. It is just not physically possible for me to do that unless I am just sending rounds down range without much serious aiming. Cost is important and I don't waste ammo.
I would love to have a Ruger Alaskan in 480 Ruger. But it is not likely to materialize ever in my inventory. It is one of those, why bother kind of decisons. I carry a 41 mag if I am concerned about black bears and I consider that plenty for most situations.
These really big boomers are fun, but you take a beating and for what end? You really don't need one for bear protection for the most part. But they still are fun.
My take is if you want a big boomer, go for it, so you have the capability if nothing else. I wouldn't shoot puny loads in a 454 revolver. I have other revolvers for that.
I am a fan of the 480 Ruger and it is indeed my "big boomer". I have a SRH for deer hunting mostly, but am getting a BFR in that same caliber. You asked about ammo availability as an issue with the 454.... it might be relevant with the 480 Ruger, but honestly I can find all I need. It is not like I go out and shoot a 100 rounds in a single day. It is just not physically possible for me to do that unless I am just sending rounds down range without much serious aiming. Cost is important and I don't waste ammo.
I would love to have a Ruger Alaskan in 480 Ruger. But it is not likely to materialize ever in my inventory. It is one of those, why bother kind of decisons. I carry a 41 mag if I am concerned about black bears and I consider that plenty for most situations.
Strafer Gott
New member
I'm starting to think I'll buy this to launch warm .45 Colt. I tried one on at the LGS, and that GP100 grip actually felt pretty good. I've only shot the .44 SRH, and the FA .454. .45 colt will be analog to .44/.44spl. Thanks JMortimer, Deaf, et al. There's just no substitute for a big bore handgun when you want to travel light.
Hot 45 Colt
I have used 45 Colt "Deerstopper"rounds made by Georgia Arms.They go 1200 fps with a 260 gr JHP bullet.It is designated as safe only in Freedom Arms,Thompson Center,and Rugers OTHER THAN the New Vaquero.I use a 4 5/8" Blackhawk and never had a problem-but the recoil is stout.
I have used 45 Colt "Deerstopper"rounds made by Georgia Arms.They go 1200 fps with a 260 gr JHP bullet.It is designated as safe only in Freedom Arms,Thompson Center,and Rugers OTHER THAN the New Vaquero.I use a 4 5/8" Blackhawk and never had a problem-but the recoil is stout.
Deaf Smith
New member
No Iron Man!!!
Just get snake shot loads and go quail hunting.
Deaf
Just get snake shot loads and go quail hunting.
Deaf
If you are 100% confident that you can hit a charging bear with the first shot everytime, get the .454.
If you have even a 1% doubt about hitting a charging bear with your first shot; get the .44 mag as you will be able to have MUCH faster follow up shots with the .44 than you will with a .454.
There is alot more to picking a defensive gun than ballistic charts. If I can hit bear twice with a .44 in the time it would take me to hit the bear once with a .454 I'd rather have the .44.
If you have even a 1% doubt about hitting a charging bear with your first shot; get the .44 mag as you will be able to have MUCH faster follow up shots with the .44 than you will with a .454.
There is alot more to picking a defensive gun than ballistic charts. If I can hit bear twice with a .44 in the time it would take me to hit the bear once with a .454 I'd rather have the .44.
Edward429451
Moderator
Not factory, but I bet they'd be fairly easy to make with two gas checks like is done for 45 Colt shot loads.
I agree with the post that says if you can shoot a 44 better than the 500 then you'd be better protected by the 44. The key to bear defense is bullet selection. A hardcast solid bullet that will penetrate well is your best option.
We come to a point that we must ask ourselves what the extra power of cartridges like .454 Casull, .480 Ruger, .475 Linebaugh, .460 S&W, and .500 S&W really get us. The name of the game when we're talking about handguns for bear defense is placement and penetration. Now, while the monster magnums are certainly capable of more than enough penetration, their very heavy recoil isn't going to do much to help you with placement.
A .44 Magnum, on the other hand, still has more than adequate penetration when loaded with 240gr or heavier hardcast bullets at respectable velocity and, while certainly no pea shooter, produces much less recoil than the monster magnums do. .44 Magnum also has cheaper and more widely available ammunition for the non-reloader and, as we all know, the more you practice the better you will shoot. Were I hiking in bear country, my choice would a a good .44 Magnum revolver (I like S&W but Ruger makes a good revolver too) loaded with something like Federal's 300gr Castcore.
A .44 Magnum, on the other hand, still has more than adequate penetration when loaded with 240gr or heavier hardcast bullets at respectable velocity and, while certainly no pea shooter, produces much less recoil than the monster magnums do. .44 Magnum also has cheaper and more widely available ammunition for the non-reloader and, as we all know, the more you practice the better you will shoot. Were I hiking in bear country, my choice would a a good .44 Magnum revolver (I like S&W but Ruger makes a good revolver too) loaded with something like Federal's 300gr Castcore.
In the early 1970s before Freedom Arms, Dick Casull teamed up with my uncle to build .454 revolvers and I got a factory tour. One thing I remember best is a plate of cold rolled steel they had for show.
They'd shot it with a .357 and got a bit of a dimple. They'd shot it with a .44 magnum and got a bit of a dent. They'd shot it with a .454 and got a bit of a hole. I don't know what the loads were and there were no factory .454 loads at the time but it was a memorable demonstration of what was behind each bullet.
I've always regretted not having the money to buy what would be a mighty rare revolver today.
They'd shot it with a .357 and got a bit of a dimple. They'd shot it with a .44 magnum and got a bit of a dent. They'd shot it with a .454 and got a bit of a hole. I don't know what the loads were and there were no factory .454 loads at the time but it was a memorable demonstration of what was behind each bullet.
I've always regretted not having the money to buy what would be a mighty rare revolver today.
Hiddenpiece
New member
iron man
"The park services used to recommend you carry pepper spray and a bell to keep bears away.
That was until they started finding piles of bear poop full of little bells that smelled like pepper."
GOOD ONE!!
i'd go with .44 mag simply for the availability and wider range of options in loads and bullet types.
although both don't seem like enough when facin' a 1000lb+ bear.
anything less than a .500 s&w you might as well carry a daisy red ryder!
"The park services used to recommend you carry pepper spray and a bell to keep bears away.
That was until they started finding piles of bear poop full of little bells that smelled like pepper."
GOOD ONE!!
i'd go with .44 mag simply for the availability and wider range of options in loads and bullet types.
although both don't seem like enough when facin' a 1000lb+ bear.
anything less than a .500 s&w you might as well carry a daisy red ryder!
Rifleman1952
New member
In black bear country; .44 magnum or .357 magnum (hard cast bullets with either gun having a minimum of a 4" barrel).
In grizzly country; .45-70 government or 12 gauge slug.
I'm not planning on hiking anytime soon in grizzly country, but I do love and visit the mountains of Tennessee, where there are plenty of black bear. My .357 Colt King Cobra, with 180 gr hard cast, in a shoulder rig under a light jacket is more than enough.
IMHO, revolvers with 2" barrels are most effective on 2 legged predators and statistically, you are more likely to have trouble with them than the 4 legged kind.
In grizzly country; .45-70 government or 12 gauge slug.
I'm not planning on hiking anytime soon in grizzly country, but I do love and visit the mountains of Tennessee, where there are plenty of black bear. My .357 Colt King Cobra, with 180 gr hard cast, in a shoulder rig under a light jacket is more than enough.
IMHO, revolvers with 2" barrels are most effective on 2 legged predators and statistically, you are more likely to have trouble with them than the 4 legged kind.
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I'd go 44.
Reasons:
The 454 looses a lot of steam in shorter barrels. I'd opt for the 44 just for cost and availability reasons, especially if one isn't a handloader. I believe the BBA 360grain loads runs just over 1200fps in the alaskan. The recoil and blast of 50k+ psi out of that little tube is impressive even for an experienced big bore shooter. In my opinion the 4 inch redhawk is just as portable as the super redhawk alaskan when i hold them both and that inch and a half makes the 44 comparable to the 454 out of the 2.5 inch barrel and the 44 is a noticeable reduction in recoil/blast. If you get into reloading the 44 has bullets up to 405 grains so you can go mild to wild. I have both calibers and the 454 really shines in 6 inch plus tubes and where there's enough gun weight to make heavy 454 loads tolerable. Just my 2 cents. That snub .500 doesn't even look fun! I have a 10.5 inch bfr in .500 and thats about as light of a gun as i'd want with full house loads.
Reasons:
The 454 looses a lot of steam in shorter barrels. I'd opt for the 44 just for cost and availability reasons, especially if one isn't a handloader. I believe the BBA 360grain loads runs just over 1200fps in the alaskan. The recoil and blast of 50k+ psi out of that little tube is impressive even for an experienced big bore shooter. In my opinion the 4 inch redhawk is just as portable as the super redhawk alaskan when i hold them both and that inch and a half makes the 44 comparable to the 454 out of the 2.5 inch barrel and the 44 is a noticeable reduction in recoil/blast. If you get into reloading the 44 has bullets up to 405 grains so you can go mild to wild. I have both calibers and the 454 really shines in 6 inch plus tubes and where there's enough gun weight to make heavy 454 loads tolerable. Just my 2 cents. That snub .500 doesn't even look fun! I have a 10.5 inch bfr in .500 and thats about as light of a gun as i'd want with full house loads.
If I was going to defend myself against for four legged or two legged varmints, I'd still make sure that I was accustomed to that pistol. I also reload and every time I hear about these uncommon calibers, I hear cha ching of cash registers for brass and bullets.
I load for 44 mag and used to shoot a lot of it. The cost of shooting the 454 will prevent you from practicing enough.
A HIT with a well placed 44 magnum bullet is worth much more than a miss from a hand cannon.
My choice? .44 mag and spend the money that you save on practice ammunition.
Flash
I load for 44 mag and used to shoot a lot of it. The cost of shooting the 454 will prevent you from practicing enough.
A HIT with a well placed 44 magnum bullet is worth much more than a miss from a hand cannon.
My choice? .44 mag and spend the money that you save on practice ammunition.
Flash