44 mag, or 454casull
- Thread starter thecelt
- Start date
Mr.RevolverGuy
New member
Bmfgsxr,
I hate to say it but "It Depends", there are a lot of variables.
Now let me explain. Where I am located I have not seen a difference between locating 44 and 454 ammunition. Having said that there is a big difference in variability. Meaning at my local walmart or gander mountain in 2008 during the run on munitions and firearms I did not see a shortage of 44mag or 454 ammo on the shelf. Though I did notice there were more brands of 44mag on the shelf, Hornady, Winchester, Remington, PMC, Federal, Fiocchi and Magtech. 454 ammo brand were Magtech, Hornady, Winchester. Though 454 was only a few brands there were equal amount of boxes and I mean a lot of both.
Now when I noticed this that very week I had to make a business trip 1 state over, a 6 hour drive or 1hour 30minute flight. I always like to stop through the local shops and none of the chain stores walmart, gander had 44 or 454 on the shelf, but bass pro had both 44 and 454 but only in the Hornady brand.
I think you get the point I have made above. I pay very close attention to these things because you are talking about two of my favorite calibers. I love big bore revolvers, I love them so much (not bragging) but I think I am one of few persons whom have shot a S&W 500 enough to have needed to send it back to S&W to have the cylinder lock detent and timing fixed, and I am one never ever to load pass SAAMI spec, I figured if SAAMI spec doesn't serve my purpose then I move up the next biggest caliber.
I hope this long diatribe helps.
I hate to say it but "It Depends", there are a lot of variables.
Now let me explain. Where I am located I have not seen a difference between locating 44 and 454 ammunition. Having said that there is a big difference in variability. Meaning at my local walmart or gander mountain in 2008 during the run on munitions and firearms I did not see a shortage of 44mag or 454 ammo on the shelf. Though I did notice there were more brands of 44mag on the shelf, Hornady, Winchester, Remington, PMC, Federal, Fiocchi and Magtech. 454 ammo brand were Magtech, Hornady, Winchester. Though 454 was only a few brands there were equal amount of boxes and I mean a lot of both.
Now when I noticed this that very week I had to make a business trip 1 state over, a 6 hour drive or 1hour 30minute flight. I always like to stop through the local shops and none of the chain stores walmart, gander had 44 or 454 on the shelf, but bass pro had both 44 and 454 but only in the Hornady brand.
I think you get the point I have made above. I pay very close attention to these things because you are talking about two of my favorite calibers. I love big bore revolvers, I love them so much (not bragging) but I think I am one of few persons whom have shot a S&W 500 enough to have needed to send it back to S&W to have the cylinder lock detent and timing fixed, and I am one never ever to load pass SAAMI spec, I figured if SAAMI spec doesn't serve my purpose then I move up the next biggest caliber.
I hope this long diatribe helps.
it does shed some light on the situation for me.. basically i need to hit the lotto so i can own several of both, along with a s&w 500 and 460 too. 
i suppose i am fairly young at 39 (at least mentally) so although i am extremely impatient (to a fault) i do have more time (God willing) to acquire many more of these great firearms that are out there.
i suppose i am fairly young at 39 (at least mentally) so although i am extremely impatient (to a fault) i do have more time (God willing) to acquire many more of these great firearms that are out there.Edward429451
Moderator
So it keeps occurring to me that Pond, James Pond could benefit greatly in his endeavors if one of us would just ship him some things that aren't available over there.
Anything wrong with this? Would it bring the black helicopters over the house if we did? The man needs a mould, bullets, and powders.
Anything wrong with this? Would it bring the black helicopters over the house if we did? The man needs a mould, bullets, and powders.
First, good luck finding a Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull. They are catalog items, but there are none in production. You will need to scour gunbroker.com and gunsamerica.com for one. Be prepared; they're going for around $1,000-$1,100.
I too would spend most of my shooting time shooting 45 Colt. 454 Casull is just too much. Regular 44 Magnum is too much for me out of my Ruger Alaskan, though I can generally get through 12 rounds with ammunition at 1,200-1,300 FPS.
Ruger does chamber the Super Redhawk with 7 1/2" barrel in 454 Casull. You may want to go this route and have the barrel cut to four to six inches. Hamilton Bowen can do it and offers several front sight options. It won't be cheap, but you'll have the gun setup exactly how you want.
I too would spend most of my shooting time shooting 45 Colt. 454 Casull is just too much. Regular 44 Magnum is too much for me out of my Ruger Alaskan, though I can generally get through 12 rounds with ammunition at 1,200-1,300 FPS.
Ruger does chamber the Super Redhawk with 7 1/2" barrel in 454 Casull. You may want to go this route and have the barrel cut to four to six inches. Hamilton Bowen can do it and offers several front sight options. It won't be cheap, but you'll have the gun setup exactly how you want.
Strafer Gott
New member
Red Hawk in .44 is adequate with bear loads, and easier to carry. The 4" barrel is fast handling enough, and doesn't rob velocity or produce excessive blast. You'll probably save enough on the gun to buy some serious ammo or components.
Pond James Pond
New member
Genius, Sir!!
Have I ever mentioned how much I admire your view of the world!!
Quite possibly!!
Almost certainly over mine!!
The reason BB and the others have 44 rivaling the 454 loads is that they hit a practical limit on the 454. You can push them much harder but very few bullets will hold together at those velocities.
My 15" Encore 460 barrel pushes factory 200 grain Hornady loads to 2900 fps. That's bordering on pointless. Bullets won't hold up.
My 15" Encore 460 barrel pushes factory 200 grain Hornady loads to 2900 fps. That's bordering on pointless. Bullets won't hold up.
buck460XVR
New member
If that's the case you could get a S&W .460 ES for about the same price. Shoots not only the .460 Magnum, but .454 and .45 Colt as well. The massive X-Frame will help a little with recoil too. From my experience, the .454 many times is put in too light of revolver and the recoil is thus......brutal. For bear protection the second or third shot is just as important as the first. Good accurate follow up shots are easier to obtain from a gun that doesn't kick like a Clydesdale.
i love that tool, and wouldnt mind getting it down the road but for now i went with the srha in 44 for several reasons.
1. rugers truly are "rugged and reliable" which is almost always my first reason for choosing a firearm.
2. 44spl/mag is more commonly found that 45lc/454 and less costly than the latter as well.
3. it looks badass
4. if you run out of ammo you can use it as a hammer
1. rugers truly are "rugged and reliable" which is almost always my first reason for choosing a firearm.
2. 44spl/mag is more commonly found that 45lc/454 and less costly than the latter as well.
3. it looks badass
4. if you run out of ammo you can use it as a hammer
Other features include: Hogue Tamer grips, a very nice trigger (no trigger work necessary) and pinned front sight. A variety of strings are available if you want to further tune the trigger. You can buy an XS Sights big dot tritium sight or a standard sized one.
Chamfer the charge holes, add a night sight, change to wood grips if you prefer that and you're done.
I find the ability to shoot 45 Colt to be a very desirable feature. The X-Frame is a bit ridiculous for open or concealed carry, but likely great for long range competition and hunting.
Pond James Pond
New member
Congrats!!
Very jealous! Whilst I really love my 4" RH in .44, the SRH would be my ideal. I really like its sheer sense of indestructibleness!!
Hard to imagine it exudes even more solidity than the standard RH, but for me it does!!
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I love bear gun threads.
Why not get a .50 Barrett and cut it down to a pistol grip and a 4" barrel? After all, people are already recommending guns too heavy to practically carry for significant distances in a manner conducive to getting into action in the split seconds of a bear charge...and in cartridges/small guns which would be impossible to get an accurate second or third shot off. Might as well go all the way and impress your friends.
The fact remains, all that will stop a bear charge is a shot to the CNS...put one in the vitals you would shoot into hunting and the bear will die, likely after you are already dead. And a 44Mag, a 41Mag, and perhaps even a 357Mag with the right bullets will be equally able to penetrate the CNS....and much more controllable to get in a few quick follow-up shots to increase your likelihood of success.
Why not get a .50 Barrett and cut it down to a pistol grip and a 4" barrel? After all, people are already recommending guns too heavy to practically carry for significant distances in a manner conducive to getting into action in the split seconds of a bear charge...and in cartridges/small guns which would be impossible to get an accurate second or third shot off. Might as well go all the way and impress your friends.
The fact remains, all that will stop a bear charge is a shot to the CNS...put one in the vitals you would shoot into hunting and the bear will die, likely after you are already dead. And a 44Mag, a 41Mag, and perhaps even a 357Mag with the right bullets will be equally able to penetrate the CNS....and much more controllable to get in a few quick follow-up shots to increase your likelihood of success.
Flyboy_451
New member
That is a less than accurate statement. While it may be true that that particular load produces energy levels approaching the Buffalo Bore loads for the .454 Casull, it doesn't tell the whole story. The Buffalo Bore loads for 454 are well below what the cartridge is capable of within the SAAMI pressure limits. The .44 load however, exceeds SAAMI specs by what is likely a significant margin.
If you look at the load data for .454 Casull on Freedom Arms' website, you will easily see this. One example is a 300grn jacketed bullet at 1750fps from a 7 1/2" barrel. If energy is the number you like to look at, this load develops in excess of 2,000 foot pounds of energy. Compare that to the Buffalo Bore .44 load that develops about 1650 foot pounds of energy. I would call that a significant advantage for the .454. Now consider that a cast bullet will generally deliver more velocity than an identical jacketed bullet loaded to the same pressure level. This is due to the reduction in friction of cast bullets compared to jacketed bullets.
My "go to" heavy load for my six inch Freedom Arms is a 340grn cast bullet at 1680fps, as measured by an Oehler 35P chronograph ten feet from the muzzle. This load will take pretty much any critter on the planet, humanely, with proper shot placement. It kills on one end and cripples on the other.
The advantage of the .454 comes from to factors. Pressure and diameter. A larger bore will always drive a given weight bullet to a higher velocity than a smaller bore will if loaded to the same pressure, and fired from the same length barrel. This is because what accelerates the bullet is the force that the pressure creates against the base of the bullet. Force is calculated by multiplying the pressure by the area. Larger area = more force for any given pressure. An additional benefit of this increase in performance is that the larger bore can often offer equal and sometimes better performance with a barrel that is shorter than a smaller bore.
Now consider the operating pressures of the two cartridges. The SAAMI max pressure for the .44 is 36,000psi. For the .454 it is 65,000psi. That is an increase of nearly 90%. Hardly insignificant. Granted, the BB .44 load is loaded beyond SAAMI specs, but how far do you think they are willing to push it? John Linebaugh had several Ruger revolvers pressure tested to destruction and found that they spontaneously disassembled themselves at about 80,000psi. With the ever increasing amount of product liability suits and litigation taking place today, do you really think that BB is loading so far outside of SAAMI specs as to approach the failure point of the very guns that they say their ammo is safe to use in?
None of this is to say that the .44 is a slouch in any way. It is a fine cartridge that will handle most tasks that the average hunter/outdooorsman will ever ask of it. The .454 simply offers a much broader performance envelope. Granted, to truly take advantage of this, handloading is pretty much a requirement, but this is true for almost any cartridge. Measuring the merits of any cartridge by looking only at advertised ballistics from a single ammunition manufacturer, is probably not the best method.
When it comes to power, bigger is gooder in most cases.