.44 mag or .454 Casull ?

No problem.;)

By the way, the .460 is actually a pretty nice idea, but, maybe not for the reasons S&W came up with. The reason for going to the .475's and .500's was not only bullet weight, but
case room. The .475 case is a LOT bigger, capacity wise, then the 454 case.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

has some real intresting stuff on loading your .460, and, if I were you, I'd bite the bullet and do all my loading in the .460 cases. Why?

PRESSURE=RECOIL=stretched top straps, and beat up hands.
S&W has done the same thing over and over: release handguns with top straps and forcing cones that can't take much wear, when the gun is shot with max loads that list up to 58k-60k pressure. This is just an attempt to have the biggest fastest, regardless of gun wear. The Roy Weatherby of pistols.

You can use some real light powder charges, with certain powders, and get acceptably low pressure , and great velocity. When you look at the hodgdon site, just keep in mind that the test gun, or barrel, must have been REAL long, judging by the results.

I think practically, my favorite bullets would be in the 260-325 grain area for that gun, and the heavy ones only if brown bear were around, unless I was using an HP, then I might go to a heavier bullet to ensure the thing is driven deep enough into the bear.

A 350 grain LFN will go consistently 38" of cape buffalo, at 1550 fps. I'd probably go with the 300 grain .025 HP by Hawk, or even one of their Flat points in the 300 grain .035 range for brown bear size stuff.

Actually, I'd call Hawk, and you might have to have them custom make a brown bear bullet, or, take their 300 grain .035" jacketed bullet, FP, and drive it as fast as you can...

You'll be amazed at how, even with premium pistol bullets, reloading is WAY cheaper for these calibers, once you have the brass.

P.S. After looking a bit more at those figures, if they are correct, and you get similar results for velocity in your gun, I think it might be better to use the 45 Colt brass, and load it down, to get lower velocity.
 
It would be real interesting to know which of you making these comments actually own a 44 mag, 454 casull or 460 magnum
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I might own one or two. Actually I own more .44's than anything but .22's, seven if I'm remembering right. Plus a few .45Colt's. I'm not real fond of the .454 and the .460. Too much of a good thing and that's muzzle blast and velocity. I prefer heavier slugs at moderate velocities which is why I love the .480. Hopefully I'll get to have my first .500 built this year, or at least get on the waiting list. ;)
 
Socrates is absolutely correct about grips that fit one's hands. My father owns an old JP Sauer .44 mag with factory grips, and I'd much rather touch off 20 rounds of 395 gr full house loads in my .460 mag than fire one cylinder of 240 gr .44 mag in that old Sauer palm pounder. Grips are everything when it comes to big bores.
 
Craig:
Have you thought about a BFR in .475 Linebaugh? Around 800, and a steal at that.
Eds500vsBFRcustom5gripsright.jpg

They also convert easily to .500JRH.

Cheapest way to get to a .500 is to buy a BFR in 50AE, and, for an extra 250 bucks, IIRC, BFR will make you a .500JRH cylinder. That gives you a portable gun, unlike the x frames,
that, with proper grips, is just a joy to shoot.

Another path is to buy a 454 FA 83, if you can find one for around 1k, and convert it to .500JRH. Conversion is about 500 dollars for barrel, cylinder and trigger.
 
Good, Socrates chimed in.

He's probably the guy I respect the most out of everyone that posts regarding the magnum/supermagnum revolvers on this forum... and there are several excellent members who post regarding this issue with lots of direct experience with their own guns and guns they have directly held in hand. His advice regarding case size and pressure is well worth heeding.

I'd much rather shoot a .45/70 revolver than a .454 revolver. The pressure of the ancient .45/70 is just much lower, even if the cylinder is longer and adds weight to the firearm.

And his advice about grips is 100% spot-on. Unleashing 40,000psi or more is a painful and dangerous proposition if your handhold on the handgun is less than completely secure.

CraigC said:
I prefer heavier slugs at moderate velocities which is why I love the .480.
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This is excellent advice for the OP. Big, heavy, slow crushes more reliably than light and fast. I'd much rather have a 350-400gr .480 or .475 @ ~1200fps on my hip in griz country than a 260gr .454 @1900fps.

I find myself missing the .480 Ruger offerings in the SRH platform, wishing I put one on plastic while they were available. I really enjoyed shooting the one I had access to briefly, and I could hit a clay pidgeon at 25 yards consistently with this gun, foreign as both the platform and caliber were to me at the time.
 
This is excellent advice for the OP. Big, heavy, slow crushes more reliably than light and fast. I'd much rather have a 350-400gr .480 or .475 @ ~1200fps on my hip in griz country than a 260gr .454 @1900fps.
Click to expand...

I agree with this and as a reloader I load 335gr bullets in my FA 454 at 1300fps for general shooting which is lower pressure than factory 480/475 ammo. Bullets up to 395gr. are available for the 454 and can be loaded to very sedate pressure levels.
The problem is if you shoot only light bullet, high velocity factory ammo that it becomes harsh to shoot.

Jim
 
Jim:
Linebaugh always told me if you can't get it done with the caliber you've got, getter a bigger case, and bigger caliber.

We didn't have those options in the early 80's. We shot 350's at at 1550 fps, at 60k because we could, and, because that was it: nothing else was around, and some nuts wanted to kill rhino, cape buffalo, and elephant with handguns.:rolleyes:

So, keep in mind that the most important thing is your unintended target. You hunt buffalo, and, you find out your in the middle of a pride of lions, that are doing the same thing. Your after elk, and find yourself arm and paw with a giant brown bear that thinks you are an elk. You smell like one, etc.

One of the most neglected facts is what kind of bullets you are using. The really heavy bullets are only needed if you are using hollow points, or facing giant animals. If Jack's .500JRH goes through 5 to 6 feet of asian buffalo, at 950 fps, with a 440 grain LFN, what more do you really need?
Answer: if you are shooting hollow points, you need nearly TONS of speed to punch through that same 5-6 feet, and, keep the bullet velocity through the target up, so you have a nice, big, exit hole. This starts at 260 grains in 45 caliber, at 1450 fps, with black bear. 400 grain XTPS, at factory 1350 fps,.475, will break both shoulders on an elk, and keep going. You want to be the first to try it on chargin brown bear, be my guest...

We finally have handguns that kill like a 375 H&H. If that's not enough, you need a 458...
 
I'd love to have several BFR's but that SBH grip frame profile just doesn't work for me. If you could swap a Bisley grip frame onto them without a bunch of welding and reshaping I'd be all over it. Unfortunately by the time you buy a BFR and have a gunsmith do all that work, you could've paid for a full custom five-shot Ruger. Bummer for sure.
 
CraigC:
Why do you like the Bisley over the Ruger grip?
With custom, larger grips on the BFR I found it REAL easy to shoot. I have big hands, and the grips on the above gun worked just fine.

I've found the Bisley grip not so wonderful on this gun:
Ruger510Maxcopy.jpg

Ruger6copy.jpg


But, that may just be I can't handle 62 ft lbs of recoil, in a handgun, period.
 
The Bisley works wonderfully for me, if it wears the right grips. The Super whacks my middle knuckle and just doesn't feel right. I'd probably do better with a Ruger version of the 1860 Army grip than the SBH. Too much room behind the triggerguard.
 
Ive got two 500 linebaugh a 475 linebauh and a 454FA and many 45 colts and 44 mags. To say a 454 will always be harder to shoot then a 44 mag is just hogwash! Full power 454s out of my freedom arms gun are far more comfortable to shoot then factory 240 44mags out of a 4 inch N frame and i can get 4 HITS on a target with it faster
 
I will certainly agree that different gun designs fit people differently. I don't much care for the S&@ 44's. The FA 83, with custom grips, seems to handle better for me then anything so far. More on that Bisley, once I load some 300 grain Hawk Hps at around 1200 fps. MY version of 9mm.
 
44 mag vs 454 IN A RIFLE

Been reloading the 44 mag for 30 yrs now. I only bought a 44 rifle last year. I bought the Marlin mostly because of the scope mounting ease - plus its the strongest lever gun - IMO

When comapring it to the 454 I found a very interesting fact - the 44 gains more from a 20 in barrel than the 454. After researching the fps of the 300 - 330 454 loads , I found 1600 - 1800 fps I have clocked 310's out of my 44 in the high 1600 range. All things considered - cost of bullets , powder volume ( lots more in the 454) and gun selection - Puma vs Marlin , I really could not justify the few extra ft lbs of the 454. Also , in theory , the 44 will cut the air better than the larger 45. On my balistics chart , the difference becomes even closer at 100 yrds.
 
Socrates,
Could you post the pictures of the revolver you sold again on page two (serial #25)? They are not showing up on my computer, and I would really like to see it.
Thank you Steve
 
Both are great hand cannons,The 454 alittle more so.I've hunted with both for years.Loaded hot both can be uncomfortable to shoot on long range sets.

I enjoy hunting with the 454 myself,Have had really good luck & performance with it along with the 45Colt that it shoots great also.
Not as many guys have or shoot the 454 & it does make good talking points around the camp fire.Knowing You have all the power needed for most any critter you can think of dont hurt either.

Yes its alittle loud & kicks pretty hard,But hell I have friends that act just like that. That said I still like them too,Know what I mean?:eek::D
 
The 454 sure can be a handful. The first time I shot one, I shot it twice with some 320s (?) @ 1500fps, and I didn't like it. But I hand-load so that's a small problem to cure. That much power is un-necessary where I hunt so there's no reason to load that hot.

Taming the loads a bit will keep it in the range of will take anything on earth, and be fun to shoot (for those already accustomed to big-bore recoil).

I've been shooting 44 Mags for years and years, so the recent acquisition of a mdl 83 in 454 brought no surprises. It is very similar to a 44 Mag loading for it, so for a woods-walking gun it is preference, or which one do you shoot better. There is nothing in these lower 48 that a 44 Mag is no good for, yet the 454 is. Brass is cheaper for 44. That FA mdl 83 is a Rolls Royce though and would be a fine addition to anyone's collection. It's worth it.
 
I can see the point of a 44 magnum. But I do not understand the 454 Casull. I think if your going big like that you may as well go all the way with a 500 or 460 magnum.
 
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