.44 for HD

Bearkiller, as Majic pointed out...

.44 Special revolvers don't necessarily have to be big. Hence the smaller L-Frame S&W Model 696, 396, and 296 family. This .44 Special 696 has earned a special place in my nightstand:

696altamontleft1.jpg


BTW, Johnny, it's loaded with those "old" Federal 200gr SWCHP loads. They're available through www.Cheaperthandirt.com if you want them these days, that's where I found them.
 
I do not think it is too much; but there are some considerations which might make it a less than ideal choice for some people.

Controllability is the most likely problem. But my own experience has been that this can be overcome by many people with the will to do so. I had a Ruger Redhawk with a 5.5" barrel that I could empty pronto at closer distances even with the 270 grain Speers and heavier hardcasts running 300 grains with useful fire - and I am not an Arnold either. However this is a two-handed affair, which is perhaps not a wise limitation for a revolver intended for defensive use. But if shots can be delivered with practical accuracy one-handed, albeit at a slower rate - then it still has some practical utility.

Ultimately the only means to master a .44 with full power loads - is to shoot full power loads. If you do not handload this could be expensive if you need to shoot alot of it to acclimatize. While you can shoot .44 Specials (or the .44 magnum "midrange" lead loads) in any .44 magnum, if you are going to use such loads for defensive use you may as well just get a .44 Special revolver to begin with. But for some practice and plinking, small game etc the lighter .44 loads have plenty of merit as an option when desired.

I do not share the concerns to the same degree that many have with over-penetration. In fact I am usually more concerned with under-penetration, and choose my ammo accordingly. Thus something in the order of the standard 240 grain hollowpoint - probably the Gold Dot - would be my choice of ammo for two-legged predators.

If you do decide to go with the .44 I would highly recommend the 5.5" Redhawk. It has a pretty optimal barrel length for pointability, and the overall heft of this revolver make it IMO fairly easy (in .44 terms that is) to control. And it is a tough revolver; it'll take all the full power .44 shells most people can handle and keep on ticking.
 
1) When you touch off that .44, . . . every window in that room will shatter from the concussion as well as dresser mirrors, etc. leaving you in a room with broken glass all over and in all liklihood, . . . barefooted.
Time to call BS.
I've "touched off" well over 100 rounds of .44 Magnum *handloads which were well above any current big 3 (Win/Fed/Rem) offerings in the living room. Not a single window shattered. Matter of fact, the concussion was barley audible outside ~ 25 feet from the house. My fat brother in law (Viet Nam vet that saw a lot of combat) told me he heard something, but couldn't really distinguish it as gunfire. He said it sounded more like something heavy being dropped inside the house.

I'm going back on my earlier statement of recoil being the limiting factor.
Plain old silliness and ignorance and the unfounded bias it breeds is the limiting factor. Reading all of the admonisions against using what could be a very effective self defense option - - in of all places - a forum supposedly informed and friendly towards the topic - makes me shudder.

No way, no how would you get a fair shake from a jury packed with soccer moms, etc.

*20.5 gr of the old Hercules 2400 under a 240 gr JSP. Penetration was ~ 14 inches (IIRC) into a stack of old magazines (the reading kind)
 
Shattered windows ?? HAHAHAHA....A 44 special makes a good HD round especially since there are some good factory rounds for it . The Winchester Silvertip has been redesigned and actually expands, Cor-bon is coming out with a new one etc. Check them out.
 
Don't you hate those people with 696s that have to _SHOW_ them to you!! :-)

Jealous, ThomasH

P.S. I wrote S&W asking them to make the 696 again. Think it'll work?
(It'd take a miracle...)
 
That is pretty darned hilarious...

When you touch off that .44, . . . every window in that room will shatter from the concussion as well as dresser mirrors, etc. leaving you in a room with broken glass all over and in all liklihood, . . . barefooted.

I've set a paper target on fire at an indoor range with a .44 Magnum Desert Eagle, from about 10 feet away. The load was a healthy charge of H110, behind a 300gr bullet.

But I've never shattered glass windows when firing one from indoors, nor when it was a .30-06 making the loud noises. What am I doing wrong, no Hollywood break-away glass?

I *did* hear that if I hit a bad guy in the little finger with my .45 ACP, he'll drop like a sack of potatoes. I read that somewhere on the internet, so I know it's true. :o

Regarding the pics of the 696 - I was never a big fan of stainless wheelguns, until I adopted that neglected L-frame. We're inseparable now. :D
 
If you want a cannon, a good 20 ga. semi or double would weigh in about the same as a Super Redhawk, give even more power and be quicker to boot!

I went through a 41mag, 44mag, 35 Remington ( Contender ) phase. Today my only 44 mag is a Winchester 94 Trapper levergun. Massad Ayoob put it very succinctly: you may be able to outshoot someone else with your 44 magnum, but you'll never be able to outshoot what you can do with a 357 ( speed, accuracy, stopping power ).

Long ago I proved I could shoot expert with a 4" 41 mag and full charge loads. The punchline? Using my 2&1/2" M19 and full power 125 grain 357's I shot Distinguished Master, faster. Even using a second M58 for a New York reload.

But then I've spouted off on overweight and slower guns versus lighter and livelier guns. Feel free to use the 50 pound block of salt on the sidewalk in front of my door - that's what it's there for.
 
I second you LAK on the Ruger 5.5 inch Redhawk. I love mine...granted it is an outdoor gun for me...truck and hunting...but I would, and have brought it in a few times...I also agree with someone who said they pray they will never have to use it in self defense...me too. Having said that my house gun (for now) is a 9mm and a 12 gauge...The 9mm mainly because it is a extremely reliable Taurus 92.
 
Many years back, my handgun was a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44Mag. I loaded my own ammo on a (at the time) $12.95 Lee Loader set.

My load was a Speer 200-Gr "Jacket Magnum Hollow Point", over 11 Gr of Hercules (now Alliant Powders) Unique. Gave me more ooomph than the .44Spl loads, but not as powerful as the .44Mag loads. IIRC, the only (Remington brand) factory loads were a full-house 240 SJHP or 240 soft-point.
 
Hd

For my wife, who is totally blind, I got a .38sp double action and Speer shotshells, for my side of the nightstand, a 1917 S&W .45acp with my shotshells made of .30-06 base cases cut off to 1.6" and loaded with 3gr Universal and 140gr #6 shot, really does a job on a pop can at 15 ft.
I realize it would not drop a druggie on crack at one shot, but the average burglar would likely be blinded permanately or at least seriously hurt at the usual inhouse ranges and would likely cut and run or just flop down and start squealing for a doctor.
:eek:
Don
 
I'm going back on my earlier statement of recoil being the limiting factor.
Plain old silliness and ignorance and the unfounded bias it breeds is the limiting factor. Reading all of the admonisions against using what could be a very effective self defense option - - in of all places - a forum supposedly informed and friendly towards the topic - makes me shudder.

That's about the way I feel as well. I know this has already been said, but it bears repeating.
Overpenetration is a function of bullet selection- not caliber selection.
Recoil and muzzle blast difficulties vary with the individual, and it's my belief both can be overcome with practice.
If fast followup shots and quick handling are really are so important, then a small .22 pistol must surely be the best defensive caliber. If power is paramount, then a 10 gauge loaded with heavy charges of buckshot is the end-all-be-all caliber. As you can see, any of the handguns commonly used are a compromise between the two extremes. I don't believe the .44 is any worse of a compromise than a .357 or .45.
 
I think the way to go is a 4" model 29 or one of the M29 variants, loaded with .44 special defense ammo, such as Glaser Safety slugs, Cor-Bon, Hydra Shock, etc. That is my wife's "home alone" setup.

Another good option would be a wheelgun in 45 Colt with a 4" barrel - S&W has a new one just recently on the market; also, Ruger offers the Redhawk in 45 Colt with a 5 1/2" barrel.

None of these will be easy to carry concealed but it can be done; as far as home defense, I can't think of a better setup in terms of revolvers.
 
Feed it .44 special HPs!!!

Feed your .44 mag .44 special HPs for home defense - a good combo, I would think; the extra weight of the large frame revolver will help that much more with recoil damping. And .44 special HPs are nothing anyone is going to laugh off once they are hit.
 
Hal,

I'm going back on my earlier statement of recoil being the limiting factor.
Plain old silliness and ignorance and the unfounded bias it breeds is the limiting factor. Reading all of the admonisions against using what could be a very effective self defense option - - in of all places - a forum supposedly informed and friendly towards the topic - makes me shudder.

The limiting factor is the limited choice of good personal protection loads. Softpoints and most .429" hollowpoints are geared for deep penetration and controlled expansion on Bambi and Yogi, not on perps, and are often loaded with powder that gives off a retina-searing actinic white flash at night. The alternative, "tactical" loads from Cor-Bon or the now-defunct Triton, are less "flash-y" and are loaded with lighter bullets at fairly moderate (for the caliber) velocities to permit faster follow up shots, but as a consequence, the projectiles have the sectional density of a dime and offer no real ballistic advantage over, say 10mm or .357 Magnum. In a perfect world, I'd like to see a lighter-jacketed 240gr Gold Dot launched at something just over 1000fps in a low-flash loading. That would be a .44 Magnum "tactical" load, not these anorexic things they offer now.
 
I'd like to see a lighter-jacketed 240gr Gold Dot launched at something just over 1000fps in a low-flash loading
Yes'm!
I'd settle for a 240 gr soft lead HP akin to the +p .38FBI load, but in .44Rem Mag. doing just shy of sonic, too.
Hang a "friendly" name on it like .44Companion or something so's to cut down on the .44mag stigma.
 
Real world experience with 44 mag

A 44 mag may not be for everyone, but I carry one every day. It will not blow out all the windows in your room if you shoot it indoors. I once shot mine through the windshield of my patrol car (intentionally) and I am not completely deaf. I am a little hard of hearing but that was problably from going to the shooting range back in the 1950s when no one had hearing protection. I carry Winchester Silvertip 210 grain. It is a kind of medium load, more powerful than 44 Special but not a real Rhino Roller. I have no trouble qualifying with it. Corbon and Federal make a good defense loads and of course just like 357/38, you can use any 44 Special or Russian cartridge in it if you want to tame it a little.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS OVERKILL WITH A HANDGUN. I shot a 5"6" 130 lb. guy twice with a 45 ACP Silvertip(once in the sternum and once between the shoulder blades) and he was still able to stand. He later told me that he did not even feel the first one (sternum). He thought the blood on his shirt was from the broken glass (he was an escaped convict driving a stolen car). It is amazing what adrenaline can do. I have never had to shoot anyone twice with the 44 mag but it would not surprise me if I have to someday.

Long guns are easier to hit with, hold lots of ammo and can be more powerful. Try walking through a house holding a pump shotgun in one hand and a flashlight in the other hand while opening doors and peeking around corners. Everytime I took a long gun into a possible burglary in progress I regreted it unless I had another officer with me to open the doors while I covered the room with the shotgun. I now have a Steyr Aug that I can actually carry in one hand and up close to my body and it works pretty good but is still not nearly as manuverable as a handgun.

This year in Texas, we had a LEO killed by guy with a knife because he either didn't get his gun into action quick enough or it did'nt stop the attacker quick enough. An officer in Houston go killed the day before he retired because his semi-auto jammed in a gunfight. Another Texas officer got shot with a shotgun and proceeded to shoot the bad guy 17 times. The bad guy lived, the officer died from his wounds. The shotgun didn't stop the officer from shooting back. The officers semi-auto didn't take the guy out. There is no guarantee that any firearm you can wear or carry will always take em out with one shot.

44 for home defense. You bet. As with ANY calibre, you must be aware of what is beyond your target. In a one story house, you can drop to a knee and shoot at an upward angle to avoid hitting someone sleeping in another room. If it is a multistory dwelling, you may have to go for a pelvis shot so you are shooting at a downward angle. When he falls, then put one in his head. Just because he is down doesn't mean he is no longer a threat.

Big bullets make big holes but they need to penetrate deep enough to get to major organs or blood vessels or the spine. One thing the 44 has never had a problem with is penetration. That was the problem with the 45ACP and 9MM Silvertips. If you can go to the range and shoot a hundred rounds of 44 Magnum, hit what you are shooting at and not start flinching and jerking the trigger, then by all means use it. If you can't, get something YOU can shoot all day.

My wife carries a Glock 357 because she shoots it very very well. It fits her hand. She doesn't want a lot of weight on her belt and she feels well armed with 16 in the gun and 15 in her spare mag. She started in Law Enforcement in 1973 and to this day has never had to shoot anyone although it has been a near thing several times. The way she draws her weapon, her stance, her grip, the confidence on her face, the tone of her voice and the look in her eye has caused more than one outlaw to decided that his chances of seeing another sunrise would be much better if he just did exactly what the lady told him. That's the best kind of firepower.
 
That is a interesting post.

I didn't know they used the European spelling of "calibre" in Texas.

At the two PD's I worked for it was forbidden to carry a 44 magnum.


I really don't think the 44 mag is well suited for two legged animals. I would not use it as a HD gun at all. To be honest I find a .22 LR to be a more practical HD pistol.

My HD gun is a S&W model 28 loaded with Remington 125 gr. +p or a G17 with 124 grain JHP. I have a small child in the house and I don't want him to be deaf if I ever have to shoot an intruder.

If all I had was a puny 9mm going against someone with a 44 magnum I would feel like I was way ahead in the fight.

I guess I put placement over power. I feel confident that I can outshoot most anyone with a power house 44 mag with my G17.
 
357 decibel level

357 Magnum always seemed pretty loud to me. That high frequency crack bothers my ears more than the low frequency boom that the 44 makes espcially when loaded with moderate loads. Your Model 28 is definitely an excellent home defense weapon.

My department just had it's annual qualification. Out of the 55 officers, I outshot all of them and there is no comparison as to speed from the holster. I could always get two or three shots off before anybody else fired one. I qualified with 4 guns. Glock 31, Glock 33, S&W 629 Mountain Gun, and S&W Model 60 3" target sights. I surprised myself by scoring the highest with the five shot model 60 even though I had to reload more often. The 629 was a close second. I actually shot better with the baby Glock than I did with the big Glock. Sometimes I amaze even myself. I will admit that I am a tad faster with the Glocks using the Blackhawk SERPA holster. Maybe I just need to practice with them more. That's as good an excuse as any to go to the range.

I might be just a cantakerous old man. Back when everybody carried revolvers, I always wanted to carry a semi-auto. Now that everyone has switched to semi-autos, I'm carrying my revolver. Those Glocks were pretty easy to shoot and are a lot lighter and carry a lot more ammo. Maybe I'll switch. One thing that is for sure. There are a lot more good choices now that there were when I graduated from the Police Academy in November of 1974.
 
I might be just a cantakerous old man.
Maybe so, but reading your posts it's obvious to me you've made informed decisions based on the real world,,,not some choices driven by someone else's opinions.;)
 
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