44/45 Magnum VS. 45-70 Do_All-Levergun

What would your do-it-all levergun chamber?

  • 44 Mag

    Votes: 31 23.1%

  • 45 Colt

    Votes: 7 5.2%

  • 45-70 Gov

    Votes: 79 59.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 17 12.7%
  • Total voters
    134
Several posters mentioned the Marlin Micro-groove and issues with cast bullets, there are several good writeups at Marlin Owners
which cover the issue in great detail and give the method for resolving it...Fat Boolits are indeed the method...wider is better ;)
Also a little powder moderation can be helpful, for when one matches the bullet to the load to the barrel, you get better precision anyway ;)
 
One of the reasons I went to the .45 colt is lazyness. With my Dillon loader I can load hundreds of .45 colt in an hour. I don't get that speed with rifle rounds. So I don't mind burning up ammo. It is A concideration. those hot .45 Colt loads are nothing to sneeze at!
 
To get the higher velocities out of a .45 Colt it looks like you need to load it to pretty high pressures, which I believe the 92 can take after reading through Paco Kelly's article - http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm, but the 45-70 seems to do it with a lot less pressure and can handle much larger bullets if I ever want to go after something really big.
The other consideration is that that the 30-30 and 35 Remington have power similar to the big pistol magnums, at least for the distances being looking at, maybe a little bit more...? Now, with that knowledge and turnign this around, if the 35 Remington is considered more than adequate for elk and black bear, it stands to reason that the 44 Mag and 45 Colt would have the desired power out of a rifle.
Sorry for that curve ball at the end, I just realized it and thought I'd throw it out there to see what everyone thought.
Thanks. Everyone's help and thoughts have been very appreciated =)
 
ok, you want a lever gun. you posted some good calibers. you also neglected possibly the best caliber for the game you mention and also some of the least expensive and most available over the counter ammo you will find. the good old 30/30.
i have a marlin 45/70, winchester 44 mag and 45 lc, and a winchester 30/30. for hunting i would reach for the 30/30 or the 45/70 without question. odds are you will always find 30/30 ammo on the shelf.
 
More formulas and paper ballistics to throw out at everyone. I ran the numbers on Taylor Knock Out and Thornily Relative Stopping Power just to see where everything stacked up. I was intrigued to find the 30-30 and 35 Rem stacked so much lower and would attribute that mainly to the mass the other rounds are carrying.
Could someone let me know if there's any sort of scale Taylor's formula can be compared to just to obtain some more insight on the information there?
I went to Buffalo Bore's site to get the information for a comparisons I've listed below for everyone to look through. I think we can all agree Mr Sundles is pretty straightforward with claimed ballistics and doesn't embellish as other companies are known to do. In my experience they usually give a little bit better velocity than he advertises.

Heavy 30-30 190 grain JFN
2100fps/1860ft/lbs @ muzzle
TKO - 18
TRSP - 90
1768fps/1319ft/lbs @ 150 yards
TKO - 15
TRSP - 76
Heavy 35 Remington 220 grain JFN
2200fps/2363ft/lbs @ muzzle
TKO - 25
TRSP - 118
1835fps/1645ft/lbs @ 150 yards
TKO - 21
TRSP - 98
Heavy 44 Magnum +P 305 grain LBT LFN
1780fps/~2000ft/lbs @ muzzle
TKO - 33
TRSP - 147
~1281fps/~1112ft/lbs @ 150 yards
TKO - 24
TRSP - 106
Heavy 45 Colt +P 325 grain LBT LFN
~1780fps/~2150ft/lbs @ muzzle
TKO - 37
TRSP - 161
~1300fps/~1200ft/lbs @ 150 yards
TKO - 27
TRSP - 118
Heavy 444 Marlin 335 grain LFNGC
2000fps/2974ft/lbs @ muzzle
TKO - 41
TRSP - 181
1552fps/1793ft/lbs @ 150 yards
TKO - 32
TRSP - 141
45-70 Magnum 430 grain LBT LFN
1900fps/3446ft/lbs @ muzzle
TKO - 53
TRSP - 229
1461fps/2039ft/lbs @ 150 yards
TKO - 41
TRSP - 176

-Thornily Relative Stopping Power Scale-
45 Antelope
50 Deer
100 Black Bear (<500lbs)
120 Elk, Moose, Kudu, Zebra, Large African Safari Plains Game
150 Lion, Leopard, Grizzly Bear, Brown Bear
250 Hippopotamus, Rhinoceros, Cape Buffalo, Elephant
 
Last edited:
I've owned pistol caliber carbines and they are fun rifles, but the 45/70 is so much easier and well rounded. The .444 Marlin is a nice round but if your ever low on ammo you probably can't run to the store and buy a box, at least not a local store. My vote goes to the 45/70. I love my Contender.
 
The cost for loading and plinking with the 45 colt keeps drawing me back to it... along with all the other pros in the Rossi's favor:

2500ak
1)Extremely light (I have revolvers heavier than this thing)
2)Short lever stroke
3)More rounds in the tube
4)Cheaper factory ammo
5)Costs less
6)Stock has good LOP
7)Decent factory trigger break (imo)
8)Better balance
Click to expand...
 
While I would agree that the 45/70 and the 444 Marlin will do the job better than a 44 magnum or 45 'Long' Colt, I am faced with the limitations of the State of Indiana as to what calibers/rounds can be used for hunting . I picked 44 Magnum as it IS legal for deer and other 4 legged critters in the Hoosier State. The longer rifle rounds are not. So I sold my 444 Marlin, my 35 Remington, and even my 30-30...and it broke my heart , but I sold my Winchecter Model 88 .308 also.

No lever guns left here. I use a Ruger semi-auto Carbine for the 44 mag. shooting.:mad:
 
of the State of Indiana as to what calibers/rounds can be used for hunting . I picked 44 Magnum as it IS legal
for deer and other 4 legged critters in the Hoosier State. The longer rifle rounds are not.
Click to expand...
I'd NEVER heard of a cartridge "length" rule before -- ever.
But here it is:

> The maximum rifle cartridge case length is extended to 1.8 inches, making
> the .460 Smith & Wesson, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf legal to use
> during the deer firearms season.
http://www.eregulations.com/indiana/hunting/summary-of-deer-rule-changes/

Oh Lord, protect me from the increasing number of know-not Philistines
 
Last edited:
I'd NEVER heard of a cartridge "length" rule before -- ever.
But here it is:

> The maximum rifle cartridge case length is extended to 1.8 inches, making
> the .460 Smith & Wesson, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf legal to use
> during the deer firearms season.
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like the intent of the rule is to limit hunters to bona fide "pistol caliber" cartridges. Of course, since just about every rifle cartridge including the .600 Nitro Express has had a pistol built for it, "pistol cartridge" needed to be defined.
It kind of makes sense in a densely populated and wooded area state. At least they aren't limiting you to shotguns.
 
I am faced with the limitations of the State of Indiana as to what calibers/rounds can be used for hunting .
Click to expand...

that sounds outrageous, why would you limit the amount of power you can hunt with while many other states are putting minimums on it?

are you sure that those aren't just for pistols? in which case a lever action would make the 357, 44 mag, 45 LC, and 45/70(especially since it was never a pistol cal to begin with). legal to hunt with.
 
Info on 30-30...

Tell me more about this round...? I realize this was considered state-of-the-art at the turn of the century and I'm sure it killed every animal in North America the year it was released, but I don't know much about it. There is a lot of history behind this caliber, which has me at least a little curious after so many recommendations now.
What would be the advantages vs disadvantages compared to the other calibers I listed and the 35 Remington and 444 Marlin?
 
Today I undertook the frustrating task of pulling my Rossi M92 apart for cleaning.

While I had it apart I swaped in one of these:

http://store.stevesgunz.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=1

At the same time I stoned all of the burrs off the ejector itself, and stoned all the burrs off the bottom of the hammer where it contacts the trigger. Also shaved a little off the sides of the hammer because I noticed it contacted the bolt upon release.

I highly recommend this to anyone who has one of these rifles. The ejector spring especially. The M92 action is slick until it has to eject the shell upon opening the bolt, and then in slick until it has to squeeze the ejector back into the bolt when the lugs slide into position.

It's that spring that makes the first and last part of the racking so jerky and tight. Swapping it out makes the Rossi action about as smooth as the marlin is factory. Also stops it from launching the spent casings into orbit. Snap caps go a little less than a foot up, then land at my feet.
 
Tell me more about this round...? I realize this was considered state-of-the-art at the turn of the century and I'm sure it killed every animal in North America the year it was released, but I don't know much about it. There is a lot of history behind this caliber, which has me at least a little curious after so many recommendations now.
What would be the advantages vs disadvantages compared to the other calibers I listed and the 35 Remington and 444 Marlin?
Click to expand...

It's most likely the most underestimated round in America. The .35 Remington is a bigger .30-30.
You can get the ammo for a .30-30 at just about any store that sells ammo and the ammo is not super expensive.

A lot of seasoned hunters stick with the .30-30 for the same reason a lot of experienced motorcycle riders choose a 250cc motorcycle for off road riding, it's "enough already".
 
It's most likely the most underestimated round in America. The .35 Remington is a bigger .30-30.
You can get the ammo for a .30-30 at just about any store that sells ammo and the ammo is not super expensive.

A lot of seasoned hunters stick with the .30-30 for the same reason a lot of experienced motorcycle riders choose a 250cc motorcycle for off road riding, it's "enough already".
Click to expand...
I must say that I have to agree with that statement. it is very underrated and has been ever since the nonsense squad started hailing the 300 winchester magnum as "the greatest deer round ever invented". it has it's limitations just like any other round but is still capable of hunting accuracy out past 200 yards which is more than many shooters like to attempt in the first place. as a teenager my best friend and I hunted a lot and since he knew all the farmers in the area we usually had pretty good hookups for hunting. I was there when he got his first buck, a 200 pound, 3x3 whitetail at well over 200 yards. I would not recommend it for anything larger than a black bear but it definitely has a place as a deer caliber.
 
I know my great grandfather hunted with a M94 30-30 and grandfather used it too but favored his M70 Featherweight in 30-06 for the added power.
I have been reading up on the 30-30 and from what I can find, the ammo is cheaper to buy and the performance on game up to Black Bear (even the big ones 600+lbs!) is great! The availability of 30-30 at just about any sporting goods store is also a HUGE advantage.
This thread has got me rethinking my choices and looking into so many other options! Too many choices! The only thing I'm still sure about is that I want a Marlin or Winchester 92 clone at this point! I love forums for the simple reason it's so easy to gather large amounts of knowledge =) Thanks for all the help and advice!
 
I guess it depends on where your hunting. In my neck of the woods anything over 100yds is really far, others consider 250-300yds normal. I wouldn't want to hunt long distance (say over 125yds,) with a 30/30. For black bear hunting your mostly over bait or maybe a treed bear by hounds, either shot is well under 50yds. Many people would shoot anything with a 300 win mag at 300 yds, including a black bear. The 150 grain 30/30 at 50 yards and it's about the same ft. lbs and velocity as the 300 mag at 300 yds.
 
Yerp, I'll agree with the 6 above me :)

I had a Marlin 1895-SBL in .45/70, and it was FUN!!

But I found myself going to ye olde rifle...a 1953 Marlin 336-RC WaffleTop...
maybe because it reminds me of my grandpa...can't discount the memories...
and its just easy to shoot...kick's practically nothing with a good recoil pad on it...

So the .45/70 got sold off one day at the range when a guy with more money than sense offered me too much for it ;)

But the old 336 will get passed down to my twins...as will a few more items ;)
 
The .30-30 is my choice and I voted 'other'. Why? It has a better range than the .44M, is easier on the shoulder than a .45-70 plus ammo is cheaper.
My Winchester M94 is a great all a round rifle and has taken many a Deer and one Elk.
Range? No shot over 200 yards (one Deer) with Hornady Leverevolution and the Elk (small bull) was approx 75 and I had a clear broadside shot with 190 gr HC hand load.
The charts shown earlier are good---up to a point. The charts shown are both biased toward heavier bullets, but the .30-30 will do a pretty good job on most North American game, it just takes a little patience to get the right shot, but both the .44M and the .45-70 do too.
 
The general sentiment seems to be for the 30-30, but my thoughts are that it's too much of a compromise for someone who plans to load their own rounds.

The 30-30 still has the ballistics of a brick compared to most modern hunting rounds like 30-06, or 7mm.

The 45-70 does too, but it can take down any game you'll find on this continent with relative ease.

The .44/.45/.454 M92's or 1894's all can be loaded to meet or -in the case of the .454- exceed the muzzle energy of the 30-30, and you've got a gun that makes a hole that lets in more daylight. Also, far more rounds in the tube, and if you ever decide you want to carry a companion revolver you're limited to a BFR for 45-70 and 30-30 (in which case you might as well get the 45-70).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top