.410 vs .380

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Your choices are two entirely different weapons for two different purposes. The Judge is a great backpack and/or nightstand weapon but it leaves a lot to be desired as a daily carry piece. The .380 is available in many different platforms and with the power that some loadings are available and the compactness, the .380 makes a far better choice for CC use.
 
Does anyone CCW the Judge or even know someone that does?
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I know three people that own a Judge and myself makes four. Non carry it as a CCW. To bulky,heavy and just to many other ccw options available.

If I did ccw a Judge it would more then likely be stuffed with 45lc. since the shooter is responsible for all rounds and the spread pattern with buckshot may, IMO, in certain SD situations, be to widespread.
 
If you intend to CCW, the Judge is a pretty big weapon to hide. The reason for the .380's out there now is size. They are small, easily concealed and are powerful enough for most needs. To me, the Judge is an answer to a question no one asked.
 
I saw chrony results from a 3"-barreled Bond Arms .410 Derringer. It chrony'd 590 fps avg. with 000 buck.

This gun is pathetic for SD use...nothing more than a slightly souped-up BB gun (a CO2-powered BB pistol gets about 400 fps). Stick with the .380, or even go .22LR over this.
 
Well, I have a Bond Arms 3.5" .45LC/410, and have shot the 2.5" OOO buck from it - at 7 yards, the spread was about 18". And it was pretty much a random spread (nothing you could count on).

.45LC tended to keyhole. For velocity, here.

Don't own a Judge. Have shot one. Fun gun. But give me just about anything else as a CCW. .380 would be a big advantage, in my mind.
 
I saw chrony results from a 3"-barreled Bond Arms .410 Derringer. It chrony'd 590 fps avg. with 000 buck.

This gun is pathetic for SD use...nothing more than a slightly souped-up BB gun (a CO2-powered BB pistol gets about 400 fps).
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While I am definitely not advocating .410 from a pistol as a good SD round, it's a bit misleading to say that 000 buck from a 3" bbl is nothing more than a slightly souped up BB gun.

590fps with a .36 caliber, 64 grain lead ball is a HUGE step up from 400fps with a .18 caliber, 5 grain steel BB. It has more than 25 times more energy.

A .380 is typically a .355 caliber bullet weighing around 90 grains at 1000fps. It would be very hard to argue that a single 000 pellet @ 590fps is better than a bullet from a .380, but the comparison gets a little fuzzier when one considers the terminal effects of three 000 pellets hitting simultaneously contrasted with a single 90 grain .380 round. I think the .380ACP is still the clear winner, but the additional projectiles definitely give the .410 a little bit of a boost.

Lack of penetration with standard lead 000 pellets would concern me, but I believe that harder, plated pellets which are available in some .410 loadings would probably provide decent (though probably still marginal) penetration.

It's certainly not the hammer of Thor that many people seem to think it is, but I suspect that with the proper 000 buck loadings, it has at least a reasonable chance of being effective.
 
Nothing personal boys, but I'll trust the professional chrony at 850 fps over the "I think I saw it" results, especially given that it's an apples to oranges comparison anyway. And a 3" derringer barrel (they measure the 2 1/2 chamber in a derringer as part of the barrel) is a different deal than a 3" barrel on a revolver where they DON'T measure the chambers in the cylinder.

Again, I think 410/45LC's are generally silly and of no practical use, but at HD ranges, it isn't a pellet gun.
 
The judge would have more power loaded with 45 colts. .45 colt can be loaded much more powerful than a 45 acp. If you go with a judge, get the new ones that chamber .454 casull otherwise i personally wouldnt spend money on one. The .454 judges can chamber 454s, .45 colts, .410 shells, and possibly .45 acp with moon clips. However, if its a strict carry gun the judges would be pretty big and heavy. It would be easier to carry a regular sized 9mm with a lot more bullets in it.
 
it would actually be a fair comparison to put the individual buckshot pellet up against a standard .32 bullet. It will not penetrate as well, nor will it impart any serious damage other than just penetration, but the general energy and wounding ability will be similar.

Buckshot creates very poor wounds. Once more, we have to look at history. Why were the pennsylvania rifles abandoned as we went to war, and we moved on to conical bullets? because round balls really stink as projectiles. 200 years of progress is being thrown out the window here, because of clever marketing.

Two placed rounds from any .380 handgun would cause more damage than 3 random pieces of buckshot in the velocity range of a judge.

In my mind, it always comes back to a few important points: first, a piece of buckshot isn't the same as a bullet, and it's a lot slower. Second, firing a load of buckshot isn't a controlled act, you know that by the time it crosses a room, they will have gone off of aim.

So, I choose to take control of my handgun, fire as many aimed rounds as necessary, and watch as those rounds either disable or fail to disable my opponent. I'm going to live, or I'm going to die, whatever. I am going to make the choice to either live or die by whether I can put holes in a guy's lungs, rather than putting my faith in a random pattering of seriously deficient projectiles.

But, I do confess, if I had the opportunity to shove something right in the perp's gut, would I choose a .410 buckshot load? heck yes, and as soon as I get the promise from God that I will never be placed in inconvenient circumstances, i'll throw away all of my hollow points and buy a judge.
 
I'm going to have to do some serious research, I guess, and see if there are any documented shootings. Ed sanow is a good place to start.
 
This month's shotgun column article in Field and Streams magazine is about the 410. It indirectly comes to the same conclusion as most of the posters in this thread have already stated. The round is potent at very close range and much less effective even out a few yards. My conclusion from reading the article is that it was a decent squirrel gun. I would not want it as a self defense gun unless the threat was within a just a few yards or even feet.

I have never owned or fired a Judge, but I have been in numerous pawn shops looking at other used guns where proprietors have simply stated the Judge is a piece of junk or trash. I have also read some articles about the Judge pointing out how thin the walls were between the chambers. Therefore, it does not interest me, and I would prefer a reliable .380 pistol.
 
Wonderful reading, thanks. After learning a few things, I have decided on the .380 for SD.

I will leave the .410 shotgun for HD. Now before you poo-poo that decision, it is mostly for my wife and kids, who don't like guns. I'm working on them, but Rome wasn't built in a day. Plus its better then the Nerf guns, if only by a slim margin:D
 
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