410 for HD

28 gauge has class

"Well I know of a guy was shot with a 12 ga as still alive. Heck he was shot the Vice Pres of our country altho I would not be proud of that."

Come on guys the ex vp uses a 28 gauge and 7.5 shot, and for the record that attorney went straight down and stayed down, the distance was longer than a home defence encounter and it had penetration up to his heart muscle, it nearly killed him he was definitely out of the fight. The 410 may not be the best hd but if you have one and need it to serve in that capacity the new advances in defence ammo makes it a player worthy of respect from the business end.
bb
 
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WOW, lots of huffing and puffing, all backed up with....................nothing

a 410, loaded with its three balls of buck will do the same damage as a J frame with +P ammo, except it's firing three rounds at a time - what's wrong with that? Is it "the best"?......more likely a 50BMG would be better - but then, practicality shuns some folks here
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Thank you oneounce, it looks like at least one person read what I posted which is all factually based on info provided by the manufacturers.

Assuming a 5 round 000 Buck load, pull the trigger once and you deliver an entire J frame worth of hurt on a bad guy. Pull it twice and you have delivered a 12 gauge magnum load of 000 Buck or two J frames worth of hurt. Pull it three times....well you should have the idea by now.

A 410 beats a tennis racket or broom stick any day. A 410 in the hands of a novice with buck beats handguns in the hands of a novice any day because they are much more likely to get a multiple hit with the 410 and miss with the handgun. If you think seeing the businiess end of a 410 is going to make a bad guy take the situation any less seriously, you have never had to point a gun at another man in anger.
 
I don't think you're arguing that it would be a better choice than 12 or 20, though, are you?
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Not at all - so let's not compare oranges to tangerines with the 410 to 12 gauge - If I had a choice between a 410 or a knife/broom handle/baseball bat - even a j-frame or similar - I'd take the 410 loaded with buck

Several hits with a 410 buckshot load beats several misses with a 12 gauge buckshot load - every time
 
Several hits with a 410 buckshot load beats several misses with a 12 gauge buckshot load
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Unless you're a kid, an octogenarian or a female 12 gauge is not exactly difficult to utilize or execute fast follow ups with. 410 would be a fine and probably preferable choice for any of the above categories but that's it.
 
Unless you're a kid, an octogenarian or a female 12 gauge is not exactly difficult to utilize or execute fast follow ups with. 410 would be a fine and probably preferable choice for any of the above categories but that's it.
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Well, that's quite insulting to women in general, and you missed folks with physical infirmaries that may prevent them using a 12, and let's not forget that not everyone who owns a shotgun for HD plans to run 3-gun drills every week.......:rolleyes:
 
you missed folks with physical infirmaries that may prevent them using a 12
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People with physical or mental handicaps that might prevent them from accomplishing a task without undue risk to injure others or themselves ought not do it. Be it shooting a 12 gauge or anything. This should pretty much be implied with everything, I don't need to say it.

(Added) You don't need to practice often with a 12 gauge to be more than passably competent with it either. I was knocking birds down on the move the first day I used my friend's Benelli, well before I owned my own. Shotgun marksmanship isn't exactly as practice intensive as handgun marksmanship, especially for SD.

Also, I'm not sure how that's insulting to females. Show me the percentage of females who are 5'8"-6'1" and a muscular (hell, even fat would do) 180-220lbs compared to males. Big things get pushed around less than little things by the same amount of energy and muscle (or fat) will help soften an all day practice beating from a 12 gauge without any discomfort.
 
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Shotgun marksmanship isn't exactly as practice intensive as handgun marksmanship, especially for SD.
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Your opinion, in my experience, your opinion is not correct. Folks with physical infirmaries, whether temporary or permanent who read these threads would get the idea from a lot of posts that the only acceptable load for HD is some uber-buckshot load in 12 gauge - that simply is not correct
 
Your opinion, in my experience, your opinion is not correct.
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My guess is then you haven't done any contemporary training for armed combat with carbines/shotguns/handguns in the military or with a police department. Shotguns are easier to use at a high level within their effective range than carbines and MUCH easier to master than pistol use. You don't even have to have done it to see why. Longer sight radius, two points of contact and multiple projectiles. I don't think I've ever met anyone who is a subject matter expert that thought the combat shotgun was a harder thing to master than the pistol or that the shotgun isn't the easiest of the "three guns" to use passably. Typically if interpreters are armed they're given shotguns for just that reason.

Folks with physical infirmaries, whether temporary or permanent who read these threads would get the idea from a lot of posts that the only acceptable load for HD is some uber-buckshot load in 12 gauge - that simply is not correct
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We already addressed this.
 
OP, now that we have all of the "fluff and buff" info out of the way, I will try and give you a straightforward answer: :)

The 410 is a reasonable choice as an HD weapon. However, just like handguns are a compromise for HD use and concealed carry, the 410 is a compromise. Compromise is not a bad word - it just means that you are willing to make trade-offs based on your personal needs or wishes.

Your odds of a "successful intervention" of a bad guy's plans can be somewhat better with a 20 or 12 - you just have to decide what personal attributes of the 410 do you like well enough to accept a potential reduction in those odds. For example, I typically carry a 9mm daily because it is light and very concealable. I value those two attributes enough to accept the the lighter bullet and lesser velocity that I could get from my 44 magnum. I truly believe the 44 magnum gives me better odds for a sucessful defense of my life, but I believe the 9mm is a reasonable defense weapon and accept the trade-offs.

Just be sure you have done your homework as to what you feel you are gaining with the choice of the 410 and what you are giving up.
 
With manage recoil buck loads in 12 gauge, such as the 8 pellet reduced recoil remington load 00. The recoil is very manageable, even the recoil sensitive could easily handle it and it patterns great. The only advantage I can see with the 410 is the smaller physical size of the weapon. Could less unwieldy. I like the versatility of my 12 gauge but its larger in size then a junior 410.
 
Mossberg Add

Mossberg ran an add a number when it marketed a 410 for home defense. If memory serves, they claimed that slugs were equivelant to a 30-30. Buck shot loads were equal to a 44 mag. I never checked this out.

Once again the question is does the weapon fit the user, is the user confortable and able to hit a target under stress.

An individual I know of used to load three 100 grain 308 plinker bullets in a 410 case. He used them on an individual with good effect. A flechett load would be equally effective.
 
I don't know about fletchettes. It seems most ballistic tests show them to be ineffective. The .410 is also rather limited in case volume, so you wouldn't be able to fit many of them in shell. The use of exotic ammo could also potentially lead to issues in the courtroom if you ever had to use them.

A 12 gauge offers a lot more versatility as well. If one wanted, it would be possible to use it for hunting or shooting sports, while in those roles the .410 is basically an expert's gun. Cheaper 12 gauge ammo also makes it a lot easier to get practice in.
 
The shells for my 12 ga cost less than the super crappy 410 loads.
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Best reason for not using a 410 that I can think of,,,
If a 12 gauge is too hot as far as recoil,,,
Go for a 20 gauge instead.

A few years ago my Pop was going to buy our nephew a Rossi 22/410 combo,,,
Until I showed him what had happened to the price of 410 ammo.

What did happen to the price anyways,,,
I missed when it went through the rooftop.

Aarond
 
What did happen to the price anyways,,,
I missed when it went through the rooftop.
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Two words:
Taurus Judge;)

What was once thought of as a non-destructive small game getter and a challenging skeet gun is now marketed as the ultimate point-it-at-the-bad-guy-and-blow-him-out-of-his-boots handgun:rolleyes: I mean, they ARE cool toys, and shooting .410 out of a revolver does make a sizable (and fun) controlled explosion. However, I never understood why it is believed that a long gun that chambers 3" .410 and scoots it down a 19+" barrel is thought to be a caliber that will only mildly PO a bad guy, yet when a 2.5" shell is fired from a 3" barrel it magically disintegrates a man into pudding:confused:

That said, sure I think .410 CAN be a viable HD load if that is all ya got/all ya can handle/all ya want. I wouldn't get the warm and fuzzies inspecting a noise with a .410 single shot, but that can be said for a lot of single shot guns. .22 up to a .50, a miss is a miss. One of the reasons I like my .410 Saiga so much is that it offers a lot of firepower in a lighter package than a Saiga-12. A sweep with a 10 round mag can be emptied in less than 2 seconds throwing a lot of lead out there.

In an HD situation I'd still sprint for the 12 gauge 870 pump in a heartbeat, though. The Saiga is a fun gun/truck/camping gun. It does just enough right to be worth packing along without the weight of a 12 gauge.
 
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