410 for HD

If I didn't have anything else for HD but a 410, you bet a 410 is what I'd be using.

If I were shopping for a HD(only) shotgun, I'd be looking at either a 20 or 12ga.

You might as well just spit on the perp.
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Big Bill,
You may want to research the statistics on how many people have been killed by the .410 either in defense situations or hunting accidents.

Granted, the 410 wouldn't be my first choice for HD but I think you have grossly under-estimated the lethal effectiveness of a properly placed 410 load of 00buck, shot out of an 18"(or longer) full choke bbl at HD/SD distance.
 
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I have a friend who went to school with a kid that killed his stepdad with a 410. The step dad kept beating on his mom and one day the kid just went off.

When he shot the stepdad he said he fell flat on his back. The shot blew his heart out of his chest and he stated the heart beat for a bit then stopped. My friend said this kid was a little different after that. I guess he should have tried spitting on his stepdad first. I am sure he would have been just as incapacitated.

I wouldn't have any problem using a 410 for home defense. I just loaded three .390 balls in a 410 hull and shot a 2x4 about 15 feet away. It blew through the board and badly splintered the back side of the wood. I wish I had of had a couple more boards behind the first to see what the total penetration was. If you think that is a weak load grab a 2x4 and see if with all your strength you can stab a screw driver through it. You can't. Not even half way.
 
rottieman33 said:
I look at it this way its a gun you point it at anybody thats breaks in to your house there going to run or be in a lot of pain after you shoot them.
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This isn't necessarily the case.

shortwave said:
Granted, the 410 wouldn't be my first choice for HD but I think you have grossly under-estimated the lethal effectiveness of a properly placed 410 load of 00buck, shot out of an 18"(or longer) full choke bbl at HD/SD distance.
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I wonder how much effectiveness is lost with the barrel length the Judge offers?
 
Would a .410 work?

Sure.

Would it offer any advantage over a 20ga for HD? Not that I can see, unless an intended user is severely recoil sensitive.

Like some others here, I'd personally go with a 12ga or a 20ga. (In fact, the HD long-gun at my place is a Remington 870 with a 21" smoothbore slug barrel.) I have no trouble with 12ga recoil, and my lady can handle it quite well; however, she would prefer a 20ga, if she were going to get into sporting use.

While there are some good .410 loads out there these days, it's still easier to find a wide variety in 12ga, and probably also in 20ga.
 
My M&P 15-22 would get the job done if someone broke into my house but I think I'd rather have my 5.56x45mm.

12 gauge is plenty cheap enough to practice enough to be highly proficient with and pretty much any grown man can manipulate it well/mitigate recoil well. If you are concerned about recoil you can always get an automatic, a heavier shotgun or a Supernova with the built in recoil compensation. 2c.
 
My M&P 15-22 would get the job done if someone broke into my house but I think I'd rather have my 5.56x45mm.

12 gauge is plenty cheap enough to practice enough to be highly proficient with and pretty much any grown man can manipulate it well/mitigate recoil well. If you are concerned about recoil you can always get an automatic, a heavier shotgun or a Supernova with the built in recoil compensation. 2c.
Yesterday 10:37 PM
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Good post. Too bad it doesn't have anything to do with the thread or the question the OP asked.
 
My M&P 15-22 would get the job done if someone broke into my house but I think I'd rather have my 5.56x45mm.

12 gauge is plenty cheap enough to practice enough to be highly proficient with and pretty much any grown man can manipulate it well/mitigate recoil well. If you are concerned about recoil you can always get an automatic, a heavier shotgun or a Supernova with the built in recoil compensation.
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Good post. Too bad it doesn't have anything to do with the thread or the question the OP asked.
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actually, it raises an excellent point. 10mm was saying that while his .22 could be used in HD/SD, he would rather have his .223. Similarly, while the .410 would work, a 12 gauge would be preferable.

10mm then went on to address out some of the other concerns with 12 gauge that the OP might need to take into account, and how to solve them, which is useful information considering the OP's admission that he is not a shotgun owner and presumably not extremely well informed in that area.

has plenty to do with the thread and the op's question.
 
I am glad you cleared up 10MMs post for him. And I fully understood his post. But the OP didn't ask anything about 22s, 223s or 12 guages. He ask about the suitability of using a 410 for home defense.

I give everyone the benefit of doubt and assume that they know a bigger bore will be more effective than a smaller bore. The OP was looking at a 410 in a local gunstore and ask how well it would work for HD. Not what everyone else uses or keeps for HD. Thats not too hard is it?
 
I am glad you cleared up 10MMs post for him.
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I'm sorry you were so mystified by me using an example from the exotic world of centerfire rifles that is totally applicable to his question.

The OP was looking at a 410 in a local gunstore and ask how well it would work for HD. Not what everyone else uses or keeps for HD. Thats not too hard is it?
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Unless somebody here has actually tagged a grown man with a .410, pretty much the best we can do is say "It would probably work, but 12 gauge would definitely work based on what we know it does to game and its terminal affect on human targets in combat over the last century".
 
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I'm sorry you were so mystified by me using an example from the exotic world of centerfire rifles that is totally applicable to his question
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Nope, not mystified at all. Just trying to stay on topic of a 410 for home defense. There is absolutly nothing in his question about centerfire rifles.

Unless somebody here has actually tagged a grown man with a .410, pretty much the best we can do is say "It would probably work, but 12 gauge would definitely work based on what we know it does to game and its terminal affect on human targets in combat over the last century".
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I gave an example of a grown man "tagged" with a 410 in my earlier post. Guess you missed it. I don't think anyone ever questioned the effectiveness of the 12 guage on a human target. With proper ammo it works about as as good as it gets.
 
ratshooter....

... the term would be "an analogy," and I think everybody else got it, and nobody else had an issue with it.

I thought 10mmAuto was dead-on.

The .410 would be a workable option, but there are much better options available, with the sole exception of an intended shooter who can't handle any more than .410 recoil.

If the OP has somebody in the house with arthritis, etc, then maybe the .410 is best. Otherwise, the bigger bores offer more power and more options.
 
I have a friend who went to school with a kid that killed his stepdad with a 410. The step dad kept beating on his mom and one day the kid just went off.

When he shot the stepdad he said he fell flat on his back. The shot blew his heart out of his chest and he stated the heart beat for a bit then stopped. My friend said this kid was a little different after that. I guess he should have tried spitting on his stepdad first. I am sure he would have been just as incapacitated.
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No real information about the details of the shooting including load (was it a slug, shot, what size shot?), range, etc, just that he was shot in the heart (of course it was lethal). Third hand information. A sample size of one. Not exactly what I'd call compelling stuff.
 
... the term would be "an analogy," and I think everybody else got it, and nobody else had an issue with it.
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I don't have an issue with it either. Like I stated I am just trying to stay on topic and answer the question the OP asked. And I know it was an analogy. It doesn't address the original question.

But you folks go ahead and tell the OP what he should buy, what you use and what he ought to get. I'm done here.
 
No real information about the details of the shooting including load, range, etc, just that he was shot in the heart (of course it was lethal). Third hand information. A sample size of one. Not exactly what I'd call compelling stuff.
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You are completely correct. An example of one. And no, I don't know the load, range or anything else. And yes, a heart shot. But shouldn't they all be heart shots? Thats why shot placement is harped on so much.

Just so you know I keep two 12s and a 20 guage ready for home defense myself. If the OP has a choice, and it sounds like he does I would heartily recommend something bigger than a 410 for HD.

Now I'm done.:D
 
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But shouldn't they all be heart shots? Thats why shot placement is harped on so much.
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Unless you're training with some combat arms unit every day or something like that, probably not. There's a lot of physiological and psychological reasons that a first time shooter who hasn't trained very extensively under extremely realistic conditions won't shoot quite as well as they did when they were practicing. This is why you see lots of cops dump their magazines during their first officer involved shooting. Even a lot of people who are experienced at room clearing in operational environments will relate that their first time they shot their target 5-6+ times rapidly instead of the two they were trained, even though the first two would have been more than adequate (this example is drawn from a friend of mine who recently "retired" from 7th SFG).
 
Well I know of a guy was shot with a 12 ga and is still alive. Heck he was shot by the Vice Pres of our country :) altho I would not be proud of that.

If a guy wants to use a 410, I see no problem there, it will plain kill a person.

May be a better option if recoil is a problem.
 
WOW, lots of huffing and puffing, all backed up with....................nothing

a 410, loaded with its three balls of buck will do the same damage as a J frame with +P ammo, except it's firing three rounds at a time - what's wrong with that? Is it "the best"?......more likely a 50BMG would be better - but then, practicality shuns some folks here
 
oneounceload...

... "huffing and puffing" aside, I think the point some of us were making is that the .410 could work for HD.

I don't think you're arguing that it would be a better choice than 12 or 20, though, are you?

But IIRC, the OP was asking about .410 because some guy at a gun shop told him it would be best for HD.

Based on the OP then asking us our thoughts, I get the impression he's a fairly new shooter. I wouldn't recommend a .410 to most adults as a first shotgun. Most of the people I know who use .410 are either kids who are learning to shoot; people with recoil or hand strength issues; or - at the far other end - extremely skilled shooters who either like the challenge of using a .410 in shooting sports, or who want to minimize meat or pelt damage on small critters.

So I'll stick with my answer: 12 and 20 are more powerful, and offer a better array of both defensive and hunting loads; both are more versatile. The .410 would only be something I'd recommend to a new shooter who couldn't handle the 12 or 20.
 
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